Scaife ATLAS

CTS Library / Gorgias

Gorgias (477)

urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg023.perseus-eng2:477
Refs {'start': {'reference': '477', 'human_reference': 'Section 477'}}
Ancestors []
Children []
prev
plain textXML
next
477
477a
Soc.

And so, if fair, good? For that is either pleasant or beneficial.[*]

Pol.

It must be so.

Soc.

So he who pays the penalty suffers what is good?

Pol.

It seems so.

Soc.

Then he is benefited?

Pol.

Yes.

Soc.

Is it the benefit I imaginethat he becomes better in soul if he is justly punished?

Pol.

Quite likely.

Soc.

Then is he who pays the penalty relieved from badness of soul?

Pol.

Yes.

Soc.

And so relieved from the greatest evil?

477b
Look at it this way; in a mans pecuniary resources do you perceive any other badness than poverty?

Pol.

No, only poverty.

Soc.

And what in his bodily resources? You would say that badness there is weakness or disease or ugliness or the like?

Pol.

I would.

Soc.

And in soul too you believe there is a certain wickedness?

Pol.

Of course.

Soc.

And do you not call this injustice, ignorance, cowardice, and so forth?

Pol.

Certainly I do.

477c
Soc.

So now in property, body, and soul, these three, you have mentioned three vicespoverty, disease, and injustice?

Pol.

Yes.

Soc.

Then which of these vices is the foulest? Is it not injusticein short, the vice of the soul?

Pol.

Far the foulest.

Soc.

And if foulest, then also most evil?

Pol.

How do you mean, Socrates?

Soc.

Just this: the foulest is foulest in each case because it produces the greatest pain or harm or both; this follows from our previous admissions.

Pol.

Quite so.

Soc.

And foulest of all, we have just agreed, is injustice and,

477d
in general, vice of soul?

Pol.

Yes, we have.

Soc.

So then either it is most painful, that is, foulest of these vices by an excess of painfulness, or else of harmfulness, or in both ways?

Pol.

Necessarily.

Soc.

Then do you think that being unjust, licentious, cowardly, and ignorant is more painful than being poor and sick?

Pol.

No, I do not, Socrates, from what we have said.

Soc.

Portentous then must be the extent of harm, and astonishing the evil, by which the souls vice exceeds all the others

477e
so as to be foulest of all, since it is not by pain, on your view of the matter.

Pol.

Apparently.

Soc.

But further, I suppose, whatever has an excess of harm in the greatest measure, must be the greatest evil in the world.

Pol.

Yes.

Soc.

So injustice, licentiousness, and in general, vice of soul, are the greatest evils in the world?

Pol.

Apparently.

Soc.

Now what is the art that relieves from poverty? Is it not money-making?

Pol.

Yes.

Soc.

And what from disease? Is it not medicine?

Tokens

Soc 1 w 3
And 1 w 7
so 1 w 9
if 1 w 12
fair 1 w 16
good 1 w 21
For 1 w 25
that 1 w 29
is 1 w 31
either 1 w 37
pleasant 1 w 45
or 2 w 47
beneficial 1 w 57
As 1 w 60
was 1 w 63
agreed 1 w 69
above 1 w 74
Plat 1 w 79
Gorg 1 w 84
474d 1 w 89
Plat 2 w 94
Gorg 2 w 99
474e 1 w 104
Pol 1 w 108
It 1 w 111
must 1 w 115
be 2 w 117
so 2 w 119
Soc 2 w 123
So 3 w 126
he 2 w 128
who 1 w 131
pays 1 w 135
the 2 w 138
penalty 1 w 145
suffers 1 w 152
what 1 w 156
is 2 w 158
good 2 w 162
Pol 2 w 166
It 2 w 169
seems 1 w 174
so 3 w 176
Soc 3 w 180
Then 1 w 185
he 5 w 187
is 3 w 189
benefited 1 w 198
Pol 3 w 202
Yes 1 w 206
Soc 4 w 210
Is 1 w 213
it 3 w 215
the 3 w 218
benefit 2 w 225
I 4 w 226
imagine 1 w 233
that 2 w 238
he 7 w 240
becomes 1 w 247
better 1 w 253
in 2 w 255
soul 1 w 259
if 2 w 261
he 8 w 263
is 4 w 265
justly 1 w 271
punished 1 w 279
Pol 4 w 283
Quite 1 w 289
likely 1 w 295
Soc 5 w 299
Then 2 w 304
is 6 w 306
he 11 w 308
who 2 w 311
pays 2 w 315
the 4 w 318
penalty 2 w 325
relieved 1 w 333
from 1 w 337
badness 1 w 344
of 1 w 346
soul 2 w 350
Pol 5 w 354
Yes 2 w 358
Soc 6 w 362
And 2 w 366
so 6 w 368
relieved 2 w 376
from 2 w 380
the 5 w 383
greatest 1 w 391
evil 1 w 395
Look 1 w 400
at 7 w 402
it 6 w 404
this 1 w 408
way 1 w 411
in 3 w 414
a 22 w 415
man 1 w 418
s 32 w 420
pecuniary 1 w 429
resources 1 w 438
do 1 w 440
you 1 w 443
perceive 1 w 451
any 1 w 454
other 1 w 459
badness 2 w 466
than 1 w 470
poverty 1 w 477
Pol 6 w 481
No 1 w 484
only 1 w 489
poverty 2 w 496
Soc 7 w 500
And 3 w 504
what 2 w 508
in 4 w 510
his 2 w 513
bodily 1 w 519
resources 2 w 528
You 1 w 532
would 1 w 537
say 1 w 540
that 3 w 544
badness 3 w 551
there 1 w 556
is 9 w 558
weakness 1 w 566
or 5 w 568
disease 1 w 575
or 6 w 577
ugliness 1 w 585
or 7 w 587
the 8 w 590
like 2 w 594
Pol 7 w 598
I 5 w 600
would 2 w 605
Soc 8 w 609
And 4 w 613
in 6 w 615
soul 3 w 619
too 1 w 622
you 2 w 625
believe 1 w 632
there 2 w 637
is 11 w 639
a 34 w 640
certain 1 w 647
wickedness 1 w 657
Pol 8 w 661
Of 1 w 664
course 1 w 670
Soc 9 w 674
And 5 w 678
do 2 w 680
you 3 w 683
not 1 w 686
call 1 w 690
this 2 w 694
injustice 1 w 703
ignorance 1 w 713
cowardice 1 w 723
and 1 w 727
so 10 w 729
forth 1 w 734
Pol 9 w 738
Certainly 1 w 748
I 6 w 749
do 3 w 751
Soc 10 w 755
So 12 w 758
now 1 w 761
in 10 w 763
property 1 w 771
body 1 w 776
and 2 w 780
soul 4 w 784
these 1 w 790
three 1 w 795
you 4 w 799
have 1 w 803
mentioned 1 w 812
three 2 w 817
vices 1 w 822
poverty 3 w 830
disease 2 w 838
and 3 w 842
injustice 2 w 851
Pol 10 w 855
Yes 3 w 859
Soc 11 w 863
Then 3 w 868
which 1 w 873
of 2 w 875
these 2 w 880
vices 2 w 885
is 14 w 887
the 12 w 890
foulest 1 w 897
Is 2 w 900
it 7 w 902
not 2 w 905
injustice 3 w 914
in 13 w 917
short 1 w 922
the 13 w 926
vice 3 w 930
of 3 w 932
the 14 w 935
soul 5 w 939
Pol 11 w 943
Far 1 w 947
the 15 w 950
foulest 2 w 957
Soc 12 w 961
And 6 w 965
if 3 w 967
foulest 3 w 974
then 1 w 979
also 1 w 983
most 1 w 987
evil 2 w 991
Pol 12 w 995
How 1 w 999
do 4 w 1001
you 5 w 1004
mean 1 w 1008
Socrates 1 w 1017
Soc 14 w 1021
Just 1 w 1026
this 3 w 1030
the 17 w 1034
foulest 4 w 1041
is 16 w 1043
foulest 5 w 1050
in 14 w 1052
each 1 w 1056
case 1 w 1060
because 1 w 1067
it 8 w 1069
produces 1 w 1077
the 18 w 1080
greatest 2 w 1088
pain 1 w 1092
or 11 w 1094
harm 1 w 1098
or 12 w 1100
both 1 w 1104
this 4 w 1109
follows 1 w 1116
from 3 w 1120
our 4 w 1123
previous 1 w 1131
admissions 1 w 1141
Pol 13 w 1145
Quite 2 w 1151
so 14 w 1153
Soc 15 w 1157
And 7 w 1161
foulest 6 w 1168
of 4 w 1170
all 2 w 1173
we 2 w 1176
have 2 w 1180
just 5 w 1184
agreed 2 w 1190
is 19 w 1193
injustice 4 w 1202
and 4 w 1205
in 17 w 1208
general 1 w 1215
vice 4 w 1220
of 5 w 1222
soul 6 w 1226
Pol 14 w 1230
Yes 4 w 1234
we 3 w 1237
have 3 w 1241
Soc 16 w 1245
So 19 w 1248
then 2 w 1252
either 2 w 1258
it 11 w 1260
is 20 w 1262
most 2 w 1266
painful 1 w 1273
that 4 w 1278
is 21 w 1280
foulest 7 w 1288
of 6 w 1290
these 3 w 1295
vices 3 w 1300
by 1 w 1302
an 11 w 1304
excess 1 w 1310
of 7 w 1312
painfulness 1 w 1323
or 13 w 1326
else 1 w 1330
of 8 w 1332
harmfulness 1 w 1343
or 14 w 1346
in 20 w 1348
both 2 w 1352
ways 1 w 1356
Pol 15 w 1360
Necessarily 1 w 1372
Soc 17 w 1376
Then 4 w 1381
do 5 w 1383
you 6 w 1386
think 1 w 1391
that 5 w 1395
being 1 w 1400
unjust 1 w 1406
licentious 1 w 1417
cowardly 1 w 1426
and 5 w 1430
ignorant 1 w 1438
is 22 w 1440
more 1 w 1444
painful 3 w 1451
than 2 w 1455
being 2 w 1460
poor 1 w 1464
and 6 w 1467
sick 1 w 1471
Pol 16 w 1475
No 2 w 1478
I 8 w 1480
do 6 w 1482
not 3 w 1485
Socrates 2 w 1494
from 4 w 1499
what 3 w 1503
we 4 w 1505
have 4 w 1509
said 1 w 1513
Soc 19 w 1517
Portentous 1 w 1528
then 3 w 1532
must 2 w 1536
be 11 w 1538
the 23 w 1541
extent 1 w 1547
of 9 w 1549
harm 3 w 1553
and 7 w 1557
astonishing 1 w 1568
the 24 w 1571
evil 3 w 1575
by 2 w 1578
which 2 w 1583
the 25 w 1586
soul 7 w 1590
s 127 w 1592
vice 6 w 1596
exceeds 1 w 1603
all 3 w 1606
the 26 w 1609
others 1 w 1615
so 17 w 1617
as 7 w 1619
to 4 w 1621
be 12 w 1623
foulest 8 w 1630
of 10 w 1632
all 4 w 1635
since 1 w 1641
it 12 w 1643
is 24 w 1645
not 4 w 1648
by 3 w 1650
pain 5 w 1654
on 5 w 1657
your 1 w 1661
view 1 w 1665
of 11 w 1667
the 28 w 1670
matter 1 w 1676
Pol 17 w 1680
Apparently 1 w 1691
Soc 20 w 1695
But 1 w 1699
further 1 w 1706
I 9 w 1708
suppose 1 w 1715
whatever 1 w 1724
has 1 w 1727
an 17 w 1729
excess 2 w 1735
of 12 w 1737
harm 4 w 1741
in 28 w 1743
the 30 w 1746
greatest 3 w 1754
measure 1 w 1761
must 3 w 1766
be 13 w 1768
the 31 w 1771
greatest 4 w 1779
evil 4 w 1783
in 29 w 1785
the 32 w 1788
world 1 w 1793
Pol 18 w 1797
Yes 5 w 1801
Soc 21 w 1805
So 25 w 1808
injustice 5 w 1817
licentiousness 1 w 1832
and 8 w 1836
in 31 w 1838
general 2 w 1845
vice 7 w 1850
of 13 w 1852
soul 8 w 1856
are 2 w 1860
the 33 w 1863
greatest 5 w 1871
evils 1 w 1876
in 32 w 1878
the 34 w 1881
world 2 w 1886
Pol 19 w 1890
Apparently 2 w 1901
Soc 22 w 1905
Now 1 w 1909
what 5 w 1913
is 25 w 1915
the 35 w 1918
art 1 w 1921
that 6 w 1925
relieves 1 w 1933
from 5 w 1937
poverty 4 w 1944
Is 3 w 1947
it 13 w 1949
not 5 w 1952
money-making 1 w 1964
Pol 20 w 1968
Yes 6 w 1972
Soc 23 w 1976
And 8 w 1980
what 6 w 1984
from 6 w 1988
disease 3 w 1995
Is 4 w 1998
it 14 w 2000
not 6 w 2003
medicine 1 w 2011