Scaife ATLAS

CTS Library / Hermotimus, or the Rival Philosophies

Hermotimus, or the Rival Philosophies (76-80)

urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg063.perseus-eng4:76-80
Refs {'start': {'reference': '76', 'human_reference': 'Section 76'}, 'end': {'reference': '80', 'human_reference': 'Section 80'}}
Ancestors []
Children []
prev
plain textXML
next

But now for goodness sake let us drop all this, cover it up with an amnesty, and let it be as if it had not been said; let us assume that the Stoic philosophy, and no other, is correct; then we can examine whether it is practicable and possible, or its disciples wasting their pains; it makes wonderful promises, I am told, about the Happiness in store for those who reach the summit; for none but they shall enter into full possession of the true Good. The next point you must help me with whether you have ever met such a Stoic, such a pattern of Stoicism, as to be unconscious of pain, untempted by pleasure, free from wrath, superior to envy, contemptuous of wealth, and, in one word, Happy; such should the example and model of the Virtuous life be; for any one who falls short in the slightest degree, even though he is better than other men at all points, is not complete, and in that case not yet Happy.

Hermotimus 1 never saw such a man.

Lycinus I am glad you do not palter with the truth. But what are your hopes in pursuing philosophy, then? You see that neither your own teacher, nor his, nor his again, and so on to the tenth generation, has been absolutely wise and so attained Happiness. It will not serve you to say that it is enough to get near Happiness; that is no good; a person on the doorstep is just as much outside and in the air as another a long way off, though with the difference that the former is tantalized by anearer view. So it is to get into the neighbourhood of HappinessI will grant you so muchthat you toil like this, wearing

v.2.p.86
yourself away, letting this great portion of your life slip from you, while you are sunk in dullness and wakeful weariness; and you are to go on with it for twenty more years at the least, you tell me, to take your place when you are eightyalways assuming some one to assure you that length of daysin the ranks of the not yet Happy. Or perhaps you reckon on being the exception; you are to crown your pursuit by attaining what many a good man before you, swifter far, has pursued and_ never overtaken.

Well, overtake it, if that is your plan, grasp it and have it whole, this something, mysterious to me, of which the possession is sufficient reward for such toils; this something which I wonder how long you will have the enjoyment of, old man that you will be, past all pleasure, with one foot in the grave; ah, but perhaps, like a brave soul, you are getting ready for another life, that you may spend it the better when you come to it, having learned how to live: as though one should take so long preparing and elaborating a superlative dinner that he fainted with hunger and exhaustion!

However, there is another thing I do not think you have observed: Virtue is manifested, of course, in action, in doing what is just and wise and manly; but youand when I say you, I mean the most advanced philosophersyou do not seek these things and ensue them, but spend the greater part of your life conning over miserable sentences and demonstrations and problems; it is the man who does best at these that you hail a glorious victor. And I believe that is why you admire this experienced old professor of yours: he nonplusses his associates, knows how to put crafty questions and inveigle you into pitfalls; so you pay no attention to the fruitwhich consists in action—, but are extremely busy with the husks, and smother each other with the leaves in your debates; come now, Hermotimus, what else are you about from morning to night?

v.2.p.87

Hermotimus Nothing; that is what it comes to.

Lycinus Is it wronging you to say that you hunt the shadow or the snakes dead slough, and neglect the solid body or the creeping thing itself? You are no better than a man pouring water into a mortar and braying it with an iron pestle; he thinks he is doing a necessary useful job, whereas, let him bray till all s blue (excuse the slang), the water is as much water as ever it was.

And here let me ask you whether, putting aside his discourse, you would choose to resemble your master, and be as passionate, as sordid, as quarrelsome, ay, and as addicted to pleasure (though that trait of his is not generally known). Why no answer, Hermotimus? Shall I tell you a plea for philosophy which Tlately heard? It was from the mouth of an old, old man, who has quite a company of young disciples. He was angrily demanding his fees from one of these; they were long overdue, he said; the day stated in the agreement was the first of the month, and it was now the fifteenth.

Tokens

But 1 w 3
now 1 w 6
for 1 w 9
goodness 1 w 17
sake 1 w 22
let 1 w 25
us 1 w 27
drop 1 w 31
all 1 w 34
this 1 w 38
cover 1 w 44
it 1 w 46
up 1 w 48
with 1 w 52
an 1 w 54
amnesty 1 w 61
and 1 w 65
let 2 w 68
it 3 w 70
be 1 w 72
as 1 w 74
if 1 w 76
it 4 w 78
had 1 w 81
not 1 w 84
been 1 w 88
said 1 w 92
let 3 w 96
us 2 w 98
assume 1 w 104
that 1 w 108
the 1 w 111
Stoic 1 w 116
philosophy 1 w 126
and 2 w 130
no 3 w 132
other 1 w 137
is 2 w 140
correct 1 w 147
then 1 w 152
we 1 w 154
can 1 w 157
examine 1 w 164
whether 1 w 171
it 5 w 173
is 3 w 175
practicable 1 w 186
and 3 w 189
possible 1 w 197
or 3 w 200
its 1 w 203
disciples 1 w 212
wasting 1 w 219
their 1 w 224
pains 1 w 229
it 7 w 232
makes 1 w 237
wonderful 1 w 246
promises 1 w 254
I 1 w 256
am 3 w 258
told 1 w 262
about 1 w 268
the 6 w 271
Happiness 1 w 280
in 5 w 282
store 1 w 287
for 2 w 290
those 1 w 295
who 1 w 298
reach 1 w 303
the 7 w 306
summit 1 w 312
for 3 w 316
none 1 w 320
but 1 w 323
they 1 w 327
shall 1 w 332
enter 1 w 337
into 1 w 341
full 1 w 345
possession 1 w 355
of 1 w 357
the 9 w 360
true 1 w 364
Good 1 w 368
The 1 w 372
next 1 w 376
point 1 w 381
you 1 w 384
must 1 w 388
help 1 w 392
me 2 w 394
with 2 w 398
whether 2 w 406
you 2 w 409
have 1 w 413
ever 1 w 417
met 1 w 420
such 1 w 424
a 26 w 425
Stoic 2 w 430
such 2 w 435
a 27 w 436
pattern 1 w 443
of 2 w 445
Stoicism 1 w 453
as 4 w 456
to 7 w 458
be 3 w 460
unconscious 1 w 471
of 3 w 473
pain 2 w 477
untempted 1 w 487
by 1 w 489
pleasure 1 w 497
free 1 w 502
from 1 w 506
wrath 1 w 511
superior 1 w 520
to 8 w 522
envy 1 w 526
contemptuous 1 w 539
of 4 w 541
wealth 1 w 547
and 4 w 551
in 9 w 554
one 2 w 557
word 1 w 561
Happy 1 w 567
such 3 w 572
should 1 w 578
the 11 w 581
example 1 w 588
and 5 w 591
model 1 w 596
of 5 w 598
the 12 w 601
Virtuous 1 w 609
life 1 w 613
be 4 w 615
for 4 w 619
any 1 w 622
one 3 w 625
who 2 w 628
falls 1 w 633
short 1 w 638
in 10 w 640
the 13 w 643
slightest 1 w 652
degree 1 w 658
even 1 w 663
though 1 w 669
he 18 w 671
is 7 w 673
better 1 w 679
than 1 w 683
other 2 w 688
men 1 w 691
at 4 w 693
all 4 w 696
points 1 w 702
is 8 w 705
not 2 w 708
complete 1 w 716
and 6 w 720
in 12 w 722
that 2 w 726
case 1 w 730
not 3 w 733
yet 1 w 736
Happy 2 w 741
Hermotimus 1 w 752
1 1 w 753
never 1 w 758
saw 1 w 761
such 4 w 765
a 48 w 766
man 1 w 769
Lycinus 1 w 777
I 2 w 778
am 5 w 780
glad 1 w 784
you 3 w 787
do 1 w 789
not 4 w 792
palter 1 w 798
with 3 w 802
the 15 w 805
truth 1 w 810
But 2 w 814
what 1 w 818
are 1 w 821
your 1 w 825
hopes 1 w 830
in 14 w 832
pursuing 1 w 840
philosophy 2 w 850
then 2 w 855
You 1 w 859
see 1 w 862
that 3 w 866
neither 1 w 873
your 2 w 877
own 1 w 880
teacher 1 w 887
nor 1 w 891
his 2 w 894
nor 2 w 898
his 3 w 901
again 1 w 906
and 7 w 910
so 3 w 912
on 8 w 914
to 9 w 916
the 18 w 919
tenth 1 w 924
generation 1 w 934
has 1 w 938
been 2 w 942
absolutely 1 w 952
wise 1 w 956
and 8 w 959
so 5 w 961
attained 1 w 969
Happiness 2 w 978
It 1 w 981
will 1 w 985
not 5 w 988
serve 1 w 993
you 6 w 996
to 10 w 998
say 1 w 1001
that 4 w 1005
it 12 w 1007
is 12 w 1009
enough 1 w 1015
to 11 w 1017
get 1 w 1020
near 1 w 1024
Happiness 3 w 1033
that 5 w 1038
is 13 w 1040
no 12 w 1042
good 2 w 1046
a 72 w 1048
person 1 w 1054
on 11 w 1056
the 19 w 1059
doorstep 1 w 1067
is 14 w 1069
just 1 w 1073
as 8 w 1075
much 1 w 1079
outside 1 w 1086
and 9 w 1089
in 20 w 1091
the 20 w 1094
air 1 w 1097
as 9 w 1099
another 1 w 1106
a 78 w 1107
long 1 w 1111
way 1 w 1114
off 1 w 1117
though 2 w 1124
with 4 w 1128
the 22 w 1131
difference 1 w 1141
that 6 w 1145
the 23 w 1148
former 1 w 1154
is 15 w 1156
tantalized 1 w 1166
by 2 w 1168
anearer 1 w 1175
view 1 w 1179
So 1 w 1182
it 14 w 1184
is 16 w 1186
to 12 w 1188
get 2 w 1191
into 2 w 1195
the 24 w 1198
neighbourhood 1 w 1211
of 7 w 1213
Happiness 4 w 1222
I 4 w 1224
will 2 w 1228
grant 1 w 1233
you 7 w 1236
so 7 w 1238
much 2 w 1242
that 7 w 1247
you 8 w 1250
toil 1 w 1254
like 1 w 1258
this 2 w 1262
wearing 1 w 1270
yourself 1 w 1278
away 1 w 1282
letting 1 w 1290
this 3 w 1294
great 1 w 1299
portion 1 w 1306
of 8 w 1308
your 4 w 1312
life 2 w 1316
slip 1 w 1320
from 2 w 1324
you 11 w 1327
while 1 w 1333
you 12 w 1336
are 3 w 1339
sunk 1 w 1343
in 25 w 1345
dullness 1 w 1353
and 10 w 1356
wakeful 1 w 1363
weariness 1 w 1372
and 11 w 1376
you 13 w 1379
are 4 w 1382
to 15 w 1384
go 3 w 1386
on 14 w 1388
with 5 w 1392
it 16 w 1394
for 6 w 1397
twenty 1 w 1403
more 1 w 1407
years 1 w 1412
at 15 w 1414
the 25 w 1417
least 1 w 1422
you 14 w 1426
tell 1 w 1430
me 6 w 1432
to 16 w 1435
take 1 w 1439
your 5 w 1443
place 1 w 1448
when 1 w 1452
you 16 w 1455
are 5 w 1458
eighty 1 w 1464
always 1 w 1471
assuming 1 w 1479
some 1 w 1483
one 4 w 1486
to 17 w 1488
assure 1 w 1494
you 17 w 1497
that 8 w 1501
length 1 w 1507
of 9 w 1509
days 1 w 1513
in 28 w 1516
the 26 w 1519
ranks 1 w 1524
of 10 w 1526
the 27 w 1529
not 7 w 1532
yet 2 w 1535
Happy 3 w 1540
Or 1 w 1543
perhaps 1 w 1550
you 18 w 1553
reckon 1 w 1559
on 17 w 1561
being 1 w 1566
the 28 w 1569
exception 1 w 1578
you 19 w 1582
are 6 w 1585
to 18 w 1587
crown 1 w 1592
your 6 w 1596
pursuit 1 w 1603
by 3 w 1605
attaining 1 w 1614
what 2 w 1618
many 1 w 1622
a 118 w 1623
good 3 w 1627
man 3 w 1630
before 1 w 1636
you 21 w 1639
swifter 1 w 1647
far 1 w 1650
has 2 w 1654
pursued 1 w 1661
and_ 1 w 1665
never 2 w 1670
overtaken 1 w 1679
Well 1 w 1684
overtake 2 w 1693
it 18 w 1695
if 6 w 1698
that 9 w 1702
is 19 w 1704
your 7 w 1708
plan 1 w 1712
grasp 1 w 1718
it 19 w 1720
and 13 w 1723
have 2 w 1727
it 20 w 1729
whole 1 w 1734
this 4 w 1739
something 1 w 1748
mysterious 1 w 1759
to 19 w 1761
me 9 w 1763
of 11 w 1766
which 1 w 1771
the 29 w 1774
possession 2 w 1784
is 21 w 1786
sufficient 1 w 1796
reward 1 w 1802
for 8 w 1805
such 5 w 1809
toils 1 w 1814
this 5 w 1819
something 2 w 1828
which 2 w 1833
I 5 w 1834
wonder 2 w 1840
how 1 w 1843
long 2 w 1847
you 23 w 1850
will 3 w 1854
have 3 w 1858
the 30 w 1861
enjoyment 1 w 1870
of 12 w 1872
old 2 w 1876
man 4 w 1879
that 10 w 1883
you 24 w 1886
will 4 w 1890
be 9 w 1892
past 1 w 1897
all 5 w 1900
pleasure 2 w 1908
with 6 w 1913
one 5 w 1916
foot 1 w 1920
in 34 w 1922
the 31 w 1925
grave 1 w 1930
ah 1 w 1933
but 2 w 1937
perhaps 2 w 1944
like 2 w 1949
a 140 w 1950
brave 1 w 1955
soul 1 w 1959
you 25 w 1963
are 7 w 1966
getting 1 w 1973
ready 1 w 1978
for 9 w 1981
another 2 w 1988
life 3 w 1992
that 11 w 1997
you 26 w 2000
may 1 w 2003
spend 1 w 2008
it 22 w 2010
the 33 w 2013
better 2 w 2019
when 2 w 2023
you 27 w 2026
come 1 w 2030
to 21 w 2032
it 23 w 2034
having 1 w 2041
learned 1 w 2048
how 2 w 2051
to 22 w 2053
live 1 w 2057
as 17 w 2060
though 3 w 2066
one 6 w 2069
should 2 w 2075
take 4 w 2079
so 12 w 2081
long 3 w 2085
preparing 1 w 2094
and 14 w 2097
elaborating 1 w 2108
a 155 w 2109
superlative 1 w 2120
dinner 1 w 2126
that 12 w 2130
he 42 w 2132
fainted 1 w 2139
with 7 w 2143
hunger 1 w 2149
and 15 w 2152
exhaustion 1 w 2162
However 1 w 2170
there 1 w 2176
is 23 w 2178
another 3 w 2185
thing 3 w 2190
I 6 w 2191
do 3 w 2193
not 10 w 2196
think 1 w 2201
you 28 w 2204
have 4 w 2208
observed 1 w 2216
Virtue 1 w 2223
is 24 w 2225
manifested 1 w 2235
of 13 w 2238
course 1 w 2244
in 43 w 2247
action 1 w 2253
in 44 w 2256
doing 1 w 2261
what 3 w 2265
is 25 w 2267
just 2 w 2271
and 16 w 2274
wise 2 w 2278
and 17 w 2281
manly 1 w 2286
but 3 w 2290
you 29 w 2293
and 18 w 2297
when 3 w 2301
I 7 w 2302
say 2 w 2305
you 30 w 2308
I 8 w 2310
mean 1 w 2314
the 36 w 2317
most 1 w 2321
advanced 1 w 2329
philosophers 1 w 2341
you 31 w 2345
do 5 w 2347
not 11 w 2350
seek 1 w 2354
these 1 w 2359
things 1 w 2365
and 19 w 2368
ensue 1 w 2373
them 1 w 2377
but 4 w 2381
spend 2 w 2386
the 39 w 2389
greater 1 w 2396
part 1 w 2400
of 14 w 2402
your 8 w 2406
life 4 w 2410
conning 1 w 2417
over 4 w 2421
miserable 1 w 2430
sentences 1 w 2439
and 20 w 2442
demonstrations 1 w 2456
and 21 w 2459
problems 1 w 2467
it 25 w 2470
is 28 w 2472
the 40 w 2475
man 7 w 2478
who 4 w 2481
does 1 w 2485
best 1 w 2489
at 28 w 2491
these 2 w 2496
that 13 w 2500
you 33 w 2503
hail 1 w 2507
a 185 w 2508
glorious 1 w 2516
victor 1 w 2522
And 1 w 2526
I 9 w 2527
believe 1 w 2534
that 14 w 2538
is 29 w 2540
why 1 w 2543
you 34 w 2546
admire 1 w 2552
this 6 w 2556
experienced 1 w 2567
old 3 w 2570
professor 1 w 2579
of 16 w 2581
yours 2 w 2586
he 53 w 2589
nonplusses 1 w 2599
his 9 w 2602
associates 1 w 2612
knows 1 w 2618
how 3 w 2621
to 24 w 2623
put 1 w 2626
crafty 1 w 2632
questions 1 w 2641
and 22 w 2644
inveigle 1 w 2652
you 36 w 2655
into 3 w 2659
pitfalls 1 w 2667
so 16 w 2670
you 37 w 2673
pay 1 w 2676
no 21 w 2678
attention 1 w 2687
to 26 w 2689
the 42 w 2692
fruit 1 w 2697
which 3 w 2703
consists 1 w 2711
in 50 w 2713
action 2 w 2719
but 5 w 2724
are 8 w 2727
extremely 1 w 2736
busy 1 w 2740
with 8 w 2744
the 43 w 2747
husks 1 w 2752
and 23 w 2756
smother 1 w 2763
each 3 w 2767
other 7 w 2772
with 9 w 2776
the 46 w 2779
leaves 1 w 2785
in 51 w 2787
your 10 w 2791
debates 1 w 2798
come 2 w 2803
now 3 w 2806
Hermotimus 2 w 2817
what 4 w 2822
else 1 w 2826
are 9 w 2829
you 39 w 2832
about 2 w 2837
from 3 w 2841
morning 1 w 2848
to 27 w 2850
night 1 w 2855
Hermotimus 3 w 2866
Nothing 1 w 2873
that 15 w 2878
is 33 w 2880
what 5 w 2884
it 30 w 2886
comes 1 w 2891
to 28 w 2893
Lycinus 2 w 2901
Is 1 w 2903
it 31 w 2905
wronging 1 w 2913
you 40 w 2916
to 29 w 2918
say 3 w 2921
that 16 w 2925
you 41 w 2928
hunt 1 w 2932
the 47 w 2935
shadow 1 w 2941
or 26 w 2943
the 48 w 2946
snake 1 w 2951
s 205 w 2953
dead 1 w 2957
slough 1 w 2963
and 24 w 2967
neglect 1 w 2974
the 49 w 2977
solid 1 w 2982
body 1 w 2986
or 27 w 2988
the 50 w 2991
creeping 1 w 2999
thing 6 w 3004
itself 1 w 3010
You 2 w 3014
are 10 w 3017
no 23 w 3019
better 3 w 3025
than 2 w 3029
a 214 w 3030
man 8 w 3033
pouring 1 w 3040
water 1 w 3045
into 4 w 3049
a 217 w 3050
mortar 1 w 3056
and 25 w 3059
braying 1 w 3066
it 33 w 3068
with 10 w 3072
an 49 w 3074
iron 1 w 3078
pestle 1 w 3084
he 63 w 3087
thinks 1 w 3093
he 64 w 3095
is 34 w 3097
doing 2 w 3102
a 222 w 3103
necessary 1 w 3112
useful 1 w 3118
job 1 w 3121
whereas 1 w 3129
let 6 w 3133
him 1 w 3136
bray 2 w 3140
till 1 w 3144
all 7 w 3147
s 216 w 3149
blue 1 w 3153
excuse 1 w 3160
the 51 w 3163
slang 1 w 3168
the 52 w 3173
water 2 w 3178
is 35 w 3180
as 20 w 3182
much 3 w 3186
water 3 w 3191
as 21 w 3193
ever 5 w 3197
it 35 w 3199
was 2 w 3202
And 2 w 3206
here 3 w 3210
let 7 w 3213
me 17 w 3215
ask 1 w 3218
you 42 w 3221
whether 3 w 3228
putting 1 w 3236
aside 1 w 3241
his 10 w 3244
discourse 1 w 3253
you 43 w 3257
would 1 w 3262
choose 1 w 3268
to 31 w 3270
resemble 1 w 3278
your 11 w 3282
master 1 w 3288
and 26 w 3292
be 14 w 3294
as 26 w 3296
passionate 1 w 3306
as 28 w 3309
sordid 1 w 3315
as 29 w 3318
quarrelsome 1 w 3329
ay 12 w 3332
and 27 w 3336
as 30 w 3338
addicted 1 w 3346
to 32 w 3348
pleasure 3 w 3356
though 4 w 3363
that 17 w 3367
trait 1 w 3372
of 17 w 3374
his 11 w 3377
is 39 w 3379
not 12 w 3382
generally 1 w 3391
known 1 w 3396
Why 1 w 3401
no 26 w 3403
answer 1 w 3409
Hermotimus 4 w 3420
Shall 1 w 3426
I 11 w 3427
tell 2 w 3431
you 45 w 3434
a 253 w 3435
plea 4 w 3439
for 10 w 3442
philosophy 3 w 3452
which 4 w 3457
Tlately 1 w 3464
heard 1 w 3469
It 2 w 3472
was 3 w 3475
from 4 w 3479
the 54 w 3482
mouth 1 w 3487
of 18 w 3489
an 54 w 3491
old 4 w 3494
old 5 w 3498
man 9 w 3501
who 5 w 3505
has 3 w 3508
quite 1 w 3513
a 261 w 3514
company 1 w 3521
of 19 w 3523
young 1 w 3528
disciples 2 w 3537
He 5 w 3540
was 4 w 3543
angrily 1 w 3550
demanding 1 w 3559
his 12 w 3562
fees 1 w 3566
from 5 w 3570
one 7 w 3573
of 20 w 3575
these 3 w 3580
they 2 w 3585
were 1 w 3589
long 4 w 3593
overdue 1 w 3600
he 75 w 3603
said 2 w 3607
the 57 w 3611
day 2 w 3614
stated 1 w 3620
in 65 w 3622
the 58 w 3625
agreement 1 w 3634
was 5 w 3637
the 59 w 3640
first 1 w 3645
of 21 w 3647
the 60 w 3650
month 1 w 3655
and 29 w 3659
it 38 w 3661
was 6 w 3664
now 5 w 3667
the 61 w 3670
fifteenth 1 w 3679