Scaife ATLAS

CTS Library / Zeus Catechized

Zeus Catechized (8-11)

urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg017.perseus-eng2:8-11
Refs {'start': {'reference': '8', 'human_reference': 'Section 8'}, 'end': {'reference': '11', 'human_reference': 'Section 11'}}
Ancestors []
Children []
prev
plain textXML
next
ZEUS

But, Cyniscus, this eternity and infinity is blissful for us, and we live in complete happiness.

CYNISCUS

Not all of you, Zeus; circumstances are different with you as with us, and there is great confusion in them. You yourself are happy, for you are king and can draw up the earth and the sea by letting down a well-rope, so to speak, but Hephaestus is a cripple who works for his living, a blacksmith by trade, and Prometheus was actually crucified once upon a time.[*] And why should I mention your father (Cronus), who is still shackled in Tartarus? They say too that you gods fall in love and get wounded and sometimes become slaves in the households of men, as did your brother (Poseidon) in the house of Laomedon and Apollo in the house of Admetus. This does not seem to me altogether blissful; on the contrary, some few of you are probably favoured by Fate and Fortune, while others are the reverse. I say nothing of the fact that you are carried off by pirates[*] even as we are, and plundered by temple-robbers, and from very rich become very poor in a second; and many

v.2.p.73
have even been melted down before now, being of gold or silver; but of course they were fated for this.

ZEUS

See here, your talk is getting insulting, Cyniscus, and you will perhaps regret it some day.

CYNISCUS

Be chary of your threats, Zeus, for you know that nothing can happen to me which Fate has not decreed before you. I see that even the templerobbers I mentioned are not punished, but most of them escape you; it was not fated, I suppose, that they should be caught!

ZEUS

Didnt I say you were one of those fellows that abolish Providence in debate?

CYNISCUS

You are very much afraid of them, Zeus, I dont know why. At any rate, you think that everything I say is one of their tricks.

CYNISCUS

I should like to ask you, thoughfor from whom can I learn the truth except from you?—what this Providence of yours is, a Fate or a goddess, as it were, superior to the Fates, ruling even over them?

ZEUS

I have already told you that it is not permitted you to know everything. At first you said that you would ask me only one question, but you keep chopping all this logic with me, and I see that in your eyes the chief object of this talk is to show that we exert no providence at all in human affairs.

CYNISCUS

That is none of my doing: you yourself said not long ago that it was the Fates who brought every-

v.2.p.75
thing to pass. But perhaps you repent of it and take back what you said, and you gods lay claim to the oversight, thrusting the Fates aside?

ZEUS

By no means, but Fate does it all through us.

CYNISCUS

I understand; you allege that you are servants and assistants of the Fates. But even at that, the providence would be theirs, and you are only their instruments and tools, as it were.

ZEUS

What do you mean?

CYNISCUS

You are in the same case, I suppose, as the adze and the drill of the carpenter, which help him somewhat in his craft, and yet no one would say that they are the craftsman or that the ship is the work of the adze or the drill, but of the shipwright. Well, in like manner it is Destiny who does all the building and you at most are only drills and adzes of the Fates, and I believe men ought to sacrifice to Destiny and ask their blessings from her instead of going to you and exalting you with processions and sacrifices. But no: even if they honoured Destiny they would not be doing so to any purpose, for I dont suppose it is possible even for the Fates themselves to alter or reverse any of their original decrees about each man. Atropos, at all events, would not put up with it if anyone should turn the spindle backwards and undo the work of Clotho. [*]

Tokens

ZEUS 1 w 4
But 1 w 7
Cyniscus 1 w 16
this 1 w 21
eternity 1 w 29
and 1 w 32
infinity 1 w 40
is 3 w 42
blissful 1 w 50
for 1 w 53
us 2 w 55
and 2 w 59
we 1 w 61
live 1 w 65
in 3 w 67
complete 1 w 75
happiness 1 w 84
CYNISCUS 1 w 93
Not 1 w 96
all 1 w 99
of 1 w 101
you 1 w 104
Zeus 1 w 109
circumstances 1 w 123
are 1 w 126
different 1 w 135
with 1 w 139
you 2 w 142
as 1 w 144
with 2 w 148
us 4 w 150
and 3 w 154
there 1 w 159
is 5 w 161
great 1 w 166
confusion 1 w 175
in 5 w 177
them 1 w 181
You 1 w 185
yourself 1 w 193
are 2 w 196
happy 1 w 201
for 2 w 205
you 4 w 208
are 3 w 211
king 1 w 215
and 4 w 218
can 1 w 221
draw 1 w 225
up 1 w 227
the 3 w 230
earth 1 w 235
and 5 w 238
the 4 w 241
sea 1 w 244
by 1 w 246
letting 1 w 253
down 1 w 257
a 19 w 258
well-rope 1 w 267
so 1 w 270
to 1 w 272
speak 1 w 277
but 1 w 281
Hephaestus 1 w 291
is 6 w 293
a 22 w 294
cripple 1 w 301
who 1 w 304
works 1 w 309
for 3 w 312
his 2 w 315
living 1 w 321
a 23 w 323
blacksmith 1 w 333
by 2 w 335
trade 1 w 340
and 6 w 344
Prometheus 1 w 354
was 1 w 357
actually 1 w 365
crucified 1 w 374
once 1 w 378
upon 1 w 382
a 30 w 383
time 1 w 387
See 1 w 391
the 6 w 394
Prometheus 2 w 404
And 1 w 408
why 1 w 411
should 1 w 417
I 2 w 418
mention 1 w 425
your 2 w 429
father 1 w 435
Cronus 1 w 442
who 2 w 447
is 8 w 449
still 1 w 454
shackled 1 w 462
in 9 w 464
Tartarus 1 w 472
They 1 w 477
say 1 w 480
too 1 w 483
that 1 w 487
you 6 w 490
gods 1 w 494
fall 1 w 498
in 10 w 500
love 1 w 504
and 7 w 507
get 1 w 510
wounded 1 w 517
and 8 w 520
sometimes 1 w 529
become 1 w 535
slaves 1 w 541
in 11 w 543
the 9 w 546
households 1 w 556
of 2 w 558
men 2 w 561
as 3 w 564
did 1 w 567
your 3 w 571
brother 1 w 578
Poseidon 1 w 587
in 12 w 590
the 11 w 593
house 2 w 598
of 3 w 600
Laomedon 1 w 608
and 9 w 611
Apollo 1 w 617
in 13 w 619
the 12 w 622
house 3 w 627
of 4 w 629
Admetus 1 w 636
This 1 w 641
does 1 w 645
not 1 w 648
seem 1 w 652
to 3 w 654
me 11 w 656
altogether 1 w 666
blissful 2 w 674
on 9 w 677
the 14 w 680
contrary 1 w 688
some 2 w 693
few 1 w 696
of 5 w 698
you 8 w 701
are 4 w 704
probably 1 w 712
favoured 1 w 720
by 3 w 722
Fate 1 w 726
and 10 w 729
Fortune 1 w 736
while 1 w 742
others 1 w 748
are 5 w 751
the 16 w 754
reverse 1 w 761
I 3 w 763
say 2 w 766
nothing 1 w 773
of 6 w 775
the 17 w 778
fact 1 w 782
that 2 w 786
you 9 w 789
are 6 w 792
carried 1 w 799
off 1 w 802
by 4 w 804
pirates 1 w 811
The 2 w 814
allusion 1 w 822
is 11 w 824
to 5 w 826
Dionysus 1 w 834
Ηymn 1 w 839
Homer 1 w 845
7 1 w 847
38 1 w 850
even 1 w 856
as 4 w 858
we 3 w 860
are 7 w 863
and 11 w 867
plundered 1 w 876
by 5 w 878
temple-robbers 1 w 892
and 12 w 896
from 1 w 900
very 1 w 904
rich 1 w 908
become 2 w 914
very 2 w 918
poor 1 w 922
in 15 w 924
a 63 w 925
second 1 w 931
and 13 w 935
many 1 w 939
have 1 w 943
even 2 w 947
been 1 w 951
melted 1 w 957
down 2 w 961
before 1 w 967
now 1 w 970
being 1 w 976
of 8 w 978
gold 1 w 982
or 8 w 984
silver 1 w 990
but 2 w 994
of 9 w 996
course 1 w 1002
they 1 w 1006
were 1 w 1010
fated 1 w 1015
for 5 w 1018
this 2 w 1022
ZEUS 2 w 1027
See 2 w 1030
here 2 w 1034
your 4 w 1039
talk 1 w 1043
is 13 w 1045
getting 1 w 1052
insulting 1 w 1061
Cyniscus 2 w 1070
and 14 w 1074
you 11 w 1077
will 1 w 1081
perhaps 1 w 1088
regret 1 w 1094
it 6 w 1096
some 3 w 1100
day 1 w 1103
CYNISCUS 2 w 1112
Be 1 w 1114
chary 1 w 1119
of 10 w 1121
your 5 w 1125
threats 1 w 1132
Zeus 2 w 1137
for 6 w 1141
you 13 w 1144
know 1 w 1148
that 3 w 1152
nothing 2 w 1159
can 2 w 1162
happen 1 w 1168
to 6 w 1170
me 17 w 1172
which 1 w 1177
Fate 2 w 1181
has 1 w 1184
not 4 w 1187
decreed 1 w 1194
before 2 w 1200
you 14 w 1203
I 5 w 1205
see 2 w 1208
that 4 w 1212
even 3 w 1216
the 19 w 1219
templerobbers 1 w 1232
I 6 w 1233
mentioned 1 w 1242
are 8 w 1245
not 5 w 1248
punished 1 w 1256
but 3 w 1260
most 1 w 1264
of 11 w 1266
them 2 w 1270
escape 1 w 1276
you 15 w 1279
it 7 w 1282
was 2 w 1285
not 6 w 1288
fated 2 w 1293
I 7 w 1295
suppose 1 w 1302
that 5 w 1307
they 2 w 1311
should 2 w 1317
be 9 w 1319
caught 1 w 1325
ZEUS 3 w 1330
Didn 1 w 1334
t 97 w 1336
I 8 w 1337
say 3 w 1340
you 16 w 1343
were 2 w 1347
one 2 w 1350
of 12 w 1352
those 1 w 1357
fellows 1 w 1364
that 6 w 1368
abolish 1 w 1375
Providence 1 w 1385
in 21 w 1387
debate 1 w 1393
CYNISCUS 3 w 1402
You 2 w 1405
are 9 w 1408
very 3 w 1412
much 1 w 1416
afraid 1 w 1422
of 13 w 1424
them 3 w 1428
Zeus 3 w 1433
I 10 w 1435
don 3 w 1438
t 103 w 1440
know 2 w 1444
why 2 w 1447
At 1 w 1450
any 2 w 1453
rate 2 w 1457
you 17 w 1461
think 1 w 1466
that 7 w 1470
everything 1 w 1480
I 11 w 1481
say 4 w 1484
is 17 w 1486
one 3 w 1489
of 14 w 1491
their 1 w 1496
tricks 1 w 1502
CYNISCUS 4 w 1511
I 13 w 1512
should 3 w 1518
like 1 w 1522
to 7 w 1524
ask 1 w 1527
you 18 w 1530
though 1 w 1537
for 8 w 1541
from 2 w 1545
whom 1 w 1549
can 3 w 1552
I 14 w 1553
learn 1 w 1558
the 24 w 1561
truth 1 w 1566
except 1 w 1572
from 3 w 1576
you 19 w 1579
what 1 w 1585
this 3 w 1589
Providence 2 w 1599
of 15 w 1601
yours 2 w 1606
is 19 w 1608
a 101 w 1610
Fate 3 w 1614
or 13 w 1616
a 103 w 1617
goddess 1 w 1624
as 8 w 1627
it 8 w 1629
were 3 w 1633
superior 1 w 1642
to 8 w 1644
the 25 w 1647
Fates 1 w 1652
ruling 1 w 1659
even 4 w 1663
over 1 w 1667
them 4 w 1671
ZEUS 4 w 1676
I 15 w 1677
have 2 w 1681
already 1 w 1688
told 1 w 1692
you 21 w 1695
that 8 w 1699
it 9 w 1701
is 20 w 1703
not 7 w 1706
permitted 1 w 1715
you 22 w 1718
to 10 w 1720
know 3 w 1724
everything 2 w 1734
At 2 w 1737
first 1 w 1742
you 23 w 1745
said 1 w 1749
that 9 w 1753
you 24 w 1756
would 1 w 1761
ask 2 w 1764
me 19 w 1766
only 1 w 1770
one 4 w 1773
question 1 w 1781
but 4 w 1785
you 25 w 1788
keep 1 w 1792
chopping 1 w 1800
all 5 w 1803
this 4 w 1807
logic 1 w 1812
with 3 w 1816
me 20 w 1818
and 15 w 1822
I 16 w 1823
see 3 w 1826
that 10 w 1830
in 27 w 1832
your 7 w 1836
eyes 1 w 1840
the 27 w 1843
chief 1 w 1848
object 1 w 1854
of 16 w 1856
this 5 w 1860
talk 2 w 1864
is 23 w 1866
to 11 w 1868
show 1 w 1872
that 11 w 1876
we 7 w 1878
exert 1 w 1883
no 12 w 1885
providence 1 w 1895
at 25 w 1897
all 6 w 1900
in 28 w 1902
human 1 w 1907
affairs 1 w 1914
CYNISCUS 5 w 1923
That 1 w 1927
is 24 w 1929
none 1 w 1933
of 17 w 1935
my 1 w 1937
doing 1 w 1942
you 27 w 1946
yourself 2 w 1954
said 2 w 1958
not 8 w 1961
long 1 w 1965
ago 1 w 1968
that 12 w 1972
it 12 w 1974
was 3 w 1977
the 28 w 1980
Fates 2 w 1985
who 4 w 1988
brought 1 w 1995
every- 1 w 2001
thing 5 w 2006
to 12 w 2008
pass 1 w 2012
But 2 w 2016
perhaps 2 w 2023
you 29 w 2026
repent 1 w 2032
of 18 w 2034
it 13 w 2036
and 16 w 2039
take 1 w 2043
back 1 w 2047
what 2 w 2051
you 30 w 2054
said 3 w 2058
and 17 w 2062
you 31 w 2065
gods 2 w 2069
lay 1 w 2072
claim 1 w 2077
to 13 w 2079
the 29 w 2082
oversight 1 w 2091
thrusting 1 w 2101
the 30 w 2104
Fates 3 w 2109
aside 1 w 2114
ZEUS 5 w 2119
By 1 w 2121
no 15 w 2123
means 1 w 2128
but 5 w 2132
Fate 7 w 2136
does 2 w 2140
it 14 w 2142
all 7 w 2145
through 1 w 2152
us 21 w 2154
CYNISCUS 6 w 2163
I 19 w 2164
understand 1 w 2174
you 32 w 2178
allege 1 w 2184
that 13 w 2188
you 33 w 2191
are 10 w 2194
servants 1 w 2202
and 19 w 2205
assistants 1 w 2215
of 19 w 2217
the 31 w 2220
Fates 4 w 2225
But 3 w 2229
even 5 w 2233
at 34 w 2235
that 14 w 2239
the 32 w 2243
providence 2 w 2253
would 2 w 2258
be 10 w 2260
theirs 1 w 2266
and 20 w 2270
you 34 w 2273
are 11 w 2276
only 2 w 2280
their 3 w 2285
instruments 1 w 2296
and 21 w 2299
tools 1 w 2304
as 14 w 2307
it 15 w 2309
were 4 w 2313
ZEUS 6 w 2318
What 1 w 2322
do 9 w 2324
you 35 w 2327
mean 2 w 2331
CYNISCUS 7 w 2340
You 3 w 2343
are 12 w 2346
in 33 w 2348
the 35 w 2351
same 1 w 2355
case 1 w 2359
I 21 w 2361
suppose 2 w 2368
as 16 w 2371
the 36 w 2374
adze 1 w 2378
and 22 w 2381
the 37 w 2384
drill 1 w 2389
of 20 w 2391
the 38 w 2394
carpenter 1 w 2403
which 2 w 2409
help 1 w 2413
him 1 w 2416
somewhat 1 w 2424
in 34 w 2426
his 8 w 2429
craft 1 w 2434
and 23 w 2438
yet 1 w 2441
no 16 w 2443
one 6 w 2446
would 3 w 2451
say 5 w 2454
that 15 w 2458
they 3 w 2462
are 13 w 2465
the 40 w 2468
craftsman 1 w 2477
or 15 w 2479
that 16 w 2483
the 41 w 2486
ship 1 w 2490
is 27 w 2492
the 42 w 2495
work 2 w 2499
of 21 w 2501
the 43 w 2504
adze 2 w 2508
or 17 w 2510
the 44 w 2513
drill 2 w 2518
but 6 w 2522
of 22 w 2524
the 45 w 2527
shipwright 1 w 2537
Well 1 w 2542
in 35 w 2545
like 2 w 2549
manner 1 w 2555
it 16 w 2557
is 28 w 2559
Destiny 1 w 2566
who 5 w 2569
does 3 w 2573
all 9 w 2576
the 46 w 2579
building 1 w 2587
and 24 w 2590
you 36 w 2593
at 40 w 2595
most 2 w 2599
are 14 w 2602
only 3 w 2606
drills 1 w 2612
and 25 w 2615
adzes 1 w 2620
of 23 w 2622
the 47 w 2625
Fates 5 w 2630
and 26 w 2634
I 22 w 2635
believe 1 w 2642
men 5 w 2645
ought 2 w 2650
to 15 w 2652
sacrifice 1 w 2661
to 16 w 2663
Destiny 2 w 2670
and 27 w 2673
ask 3 w 2676
their 4 w 2681
blessings 1 w 2690
from 4 w 2695
her 7 w 2698
instead 1 w 2705
of 24 w 2707
going 1 w 2712
to 17 w 2714
you 37 w 2717
and 28 w 2720
exalting 1 w 2728
you 38 w 2731
with 4 w 2735
processions 1 w 2746
and 29 w 2749
sacrifices 1 w 2759
But 4 w 2763
no 17 w 2765
even 6 w 2770
if 5 w 2772
they 4 w 2776
honoured 1 w 2784
Destiny 3 w 2791
they 5 w 2795
would 4 w 2800
not 9 w 2803
be 12 w 2805
doing 2 w 2810
so 6 w 2812
to 18 w 2814
any 3 w 2817
purpose 1 w 2824
for 9 w 2828
I 23 w 2829
don 4 w 2832
t 244 w 2834
suppose 3 w 2841
it 18 w 2843
is 29 w 2845
possible 1 w 2853
even 7 w 2857
for 10 w 2860
the 51 w 2863
Fates 6 w 2868
themselves 1 w 2878
to 19 w 2880
alter 1 w 2885
or 20 w 2887
reverse 2 w 2894
any 4 w 2897
of 25 w 2899
their 5 w 2904
original 1 w 2912
decrees 1 w 2919
about 1 w 2924
each 1 w 2928
man 5 w 2931
Atropos 1 w 2939
at 43 w 2942
all 10 w 2945
events 1 w 2951
would 5 w 2957
not 10 w 2960
put 1 w 2963
up 7 w 2965
with 5 w 2969
it 20 w 2971
if 6 w 2973
anyone 1 w 2979
should 4 w 2985
turn 1 w 2989
the 54 w 2992
spindle 1 w 2999
backwards 1 w 3008
and 30 w 3011
undo 1 w 3015
the 55 w 3018
work 3 w 3022
of 26 w 3024
Clotho 1 w 3030
play 1 w 3035
upon 2 w 3039
the 56 w 3042
name 1 w 3046
Atropos 2 w 3053
as 18 w 3056
if 7 w 3058
it 21 w 3060
meant 1 w 3065
Turnethnot 1 w 3076