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Zeus Catechized (11-15)

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Refs {'start': {'reference': '11', 'human_reference': 'Section 11'}, 'end': {'reference': '15', 'human_reference': 'Section 15'}}
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ZEUS By no means, but Fate does it all through us.

CYNISCUS I understand ; you allege that you are servants and assistants of the Fates. But even at that, the providence would be theirs, and you are only their instruments and tools, as it were.

ZEUS What do you mean?

CYNISCUS You are in the same case, I suppose, as the adze and the drill of the carpenter, which help him somewhat in his craft, and yet no one would say that they are the craftsman or that the ship is the work of the adze or the drill, but of the shipwright. Well, in like manner it is Destiny who does all the building and you at most are only drills and adzes of the Fates, and I believe men ought to sacrifice to Destiny and ask their blessings from her instead of going to you and exalting you with processions and sacrifices. But no: even if they honoured Destiny they would not be doing so to any purpose, for I dont suppose it is possible even for the Fates themselves to alter or reverse any of their original decrees about each man. Atropos, at all events, would not put up with it if anyone should turn the spindle backwards and undo the work of Clotho. [*]

v.2.p.77

ZEUS Have you gone so far, Cyniscus, as to think that even the Fates should not be honoured by men? Why, you seem inclined to upset everything. As for us gods, if for no other reason, we may fairly be honoured because we are soothsayers and foretell all that the Fates have established.

CYNISCUS On the whole, Zeus, it does no good to have foreknowledge of future events when people are completely unable to guard against them,—unless perhaps you maintain that a man who knows in advance that he is to die by an iron spear-head can escape death by shutting himself up? No, it is impossible, for Fate will take him out hunting and deliver him up to the spear-head, and Adrastus, throwing his weapon at the boar, will miss it and slay the son of Croesus, as if the javelin were sped at the lad by a powerful cast of the Fates.[*]

Indeed, the oracle of Laius is really ridiculous :

Sow not the birth-field in the gods despite,
For if thou getst, thy son will lay thee low.
Euripides, Phoenissae, 18-19 It was superfluous, I take it, to caution against what was bound to be so in any event. Consequently after the oracle he sowed his seed and his son laid him low. I dont see, therefore, on what ground you demand your fee for making prophecies.

I say nothing of the fact that you are accustomed to give most people perplexed and ambiguous responses, not making it at all clear whether the man who

v.2.p.79
crosses the Halys will cause the loss of his own kingdom or that of Cyrus; for the oracle can be taken in either sense.[*]

ZEUS Apollo had some reason for being angry at Croesus because he had tested him by stewing lamb and turtle together.[*] CYNISCUS He should not have been angry, being a god. However, the very deception of the Lydian was predetermined, I suppose, and in general our lack of definite information about the future is due to the spindle of Destiny; so even your soothsaying is in her province.

ZEUS Then you leave nothing for us, and we are gods to no purpose, not contributing any providence to the world and not deserving our sacrifices, like drills or adzes in very truth? Indeed, it seems to me that you scorn me with reason, because although, as_ you see, I have a thunderbolt clenched in my hand, I am letting you say all this against us.

CYNISCUS Strike, Zeus, if it is fated that I am really to be struck by lightning, and I wont blame you for the stroke but Clotho, who inflicts the injury through

v.2.p.81
you; for even the thunderbolt itself, I should say, would not be the cause of the injury. There is another question, however, which I will put to you and to Destiny, and you can answer for her. You have put me in mind of it by your threat.

ZEUS 1 w 4
By 1 w 6
no 1 w 8
means 1 w 13
but 1 w 17
Fate 1 w 21
does 1 w 25
it 1 w 27
all 1 w 30
through 1 w 37
us 1 w 39
CYNISCUS 1 w 48
I 2 w 49
understand 1 w 59
you 1 w 63
allege 1 w 69
that 1 w 73
you 2 w 76
are 1 w 79
servants 1 w 87
and 2 w 90
assistants 1 w 100
of 1 w 102
the 1 w 105
Fates 1 w 110
But 1 w 114
even 1 w 118
at 4 w 120
that 2 w 124
the 2 w 128
providence 1 w 138
would 1 w 143
be 1 w 145
theirs 1 w 151
and 3 w 155
you 3 w 158
are 2 w 161
only 1 w 165
their 2 w 170
instruments 1 w 181
and 4 w 184
tools 1 w 189
as 2 w 192
it 2 w 194
were 1 w 198
ZEUS 2 w 203
What 1 w 207
do 2 w 209
you 4 w 212
mean 2 w 216
CYNISCUS 2 w 225
You 1 w 228
are 3 w 231
in 2 w 233
the 5 w 236
same 1 w 240
case 1 w 244
I 4 w 246
suppose 1 w 253
as 4 w 256
the 6 w 259
adze 1 w 263
and 5 w 266
the 7 w 269
drill 1 w 274
of 2 w 276
the 8 w 279
carpenter 1 w 288
which 1 w 294
help 1 w 298
him 1 w 301
somewhat 1 w 309
in 3 w 311
his 1 w 314
craft 1 w 319
and 6 w 323
yet 1 w 326
no 2 w 328
one 1 w 331
would 2 w 336
say 1 w 339
that 3 w 343
they 1 w 347
are 4 w 350
the 10 w 353
craftsman 1 w 362
or 1 w 364
that 4 w 368
the 11 w 371
ship 1 w 375
is 3 w 377
the 12 w 380
work 1 w 384
of 3 w 386
the 13 w 389
adze 2 w 393
or 3 w 395
the 14 w 398
drill 2 w 403
but 2 w 407
of 4 w 409
the 15 w 412
shipwright 1 w 422
Well 1 w 427
in 4 w 430
like 1 w 434
manner 1 w 440
it 3 w 442
is 4 w 444
Destiny 1 w 451
who 1 w 454
does 2 w 458
all 3 w 461
the 16 w 464
building 1 w 472
and 7 w 475
you 5 w 478
at 10 w 480
most 1 w 484
are 5 w 487
only 2 w 491
drills 1 w 497
and 8 w 500
adzes 1 w 505
of 5 w 507
the 17 w 510
Fates 2 w 515
and 9 w 519
I 5 w 520
believe 1 w 527
men 2 w 530
ought 1 w 535
to 2 w 537
sacrifice 1 w 546
to 3 w 548
Destiny 2 w 555
and 10 w 558
ask 1 w 561
their 3 w 566
blessings 1 w 575
from 1 w 580
her 1 w 583
instead 1 w 590
of 6 w 592
going 1 w 597
to 4 w 599
you 6 w 602
and 11 w 605
exalting 1 w 613
you 7 w 616
with 1 w 620
processions 1 w 631
and 12 w 634
sacrifices 1 w 644
But 2 w 648
no 3 w 650
even 2 w 655
if 3 w 657
they 2 w 661
honoured 1 w 669
Destiny 3 w 676
they 3 w 680
would 3 w 685
not 1 w 688
be 3 w 690
doing 1 w 695
so 2 w 697
to 5 w 699
any 1 w 702
purpose 1 w 709
for 1 w 713
I 6 w 714
don 1 w 717
t 69 w 719
suppose 2 w 726
it 5 w 728
is 5 w 730
possible 1 w 738
even 3 w 742
for 2 w 745
the 21 w 748
Fates 3 w 753
themselves 1 w 763
to 6 w 765
alter 1 w 770
or 6 w 772
reverse 1 w 779
any 2 w 782
of 7 w 784
their 4 w 789
original 1 w 797
decrees 1 w 804
about 1 w 809
each 1 w 813
man 3 w 816
Atropos 1 w 824
at 13 w 827
all 4 w 830
events 1 w 836
would 4 w 842
not 2 w 845
put 1 w 848
up 3 w 850
with 2 w 854
it 7 w 856
if 4 w 858
anyone 1 w 864
should 1 w 870
turn 1 w 874
the 24 w 877
spindle 1 w 884
backwards 1 w 893
and 13 w 896
undo 1 w 900
the 25 w 903
work 2 w 907
of 8 w 909
Clotho 1 w 915
play 1 w 920
upon 1 w 924
the 26 w 927
name 1 w 931
Atropos 2 w 938
as 6 w 941
if 5 w 943
it 8 w 945
meant 1 w 950
Turnethnot 1 w 961
ZEUS 3 w 967
Have 1 w 971
you 8 w 974
gone 1 w 978
so 3 w 980
far 1 w 983
Cyniscus 1 w 992
as 7 w 995
to 7 w 997
think 1 w 1002
that 5 w 1006
even 5 w 1010
the 27 w 1013
Fates 4 w 1018
should 2 w 1024
not 4 w 1027
be 4 w 1029
honoured 2 w 1037
by 1 w 1039
men 3 w 1042
Why 1 w 1046
you 9 w 1050
seem 1 w 1054
inclined 1 w 1062
to 8 w 1064
upset 1 w 1069
everything 1 w 1079
As 1 w 1082
for 3 w 1085
us 3 w 1087
gods 1 w 1091
if 6 w 1094
for 4 w 1097
no 10 w 1099
other 1 w 1104
reason 1 w 1110
we 2 w 1113
may 1 w 1116
fairly 1 w 1122
be 5 w 1124
honoured 3 w 1132
because 1 w 1139
we 3 w 1141
are 6 w 1144
soothsayers 1 w 1155
and 14 w 1158
foretell 1 w 1166
all 5 w 1169
that 6 w 1173
the 29 w 1176
Fates 5 w 1181
have 1 w 1185
established 1 w 1196
CYNISCUS 3 w 1205
On 1 w 1207
the 30 w 1210
whole 1 w 1215
Zeus 1 w 1220
it 9 w 1223
does 3 w 1227
no 12 w 1229
good 1 w 1233
to 9 w 1235
have 2 w 1239
foreknowledge 1 w 1252
of 9 w 1254
future 1 w 1260
events 2 w 1266
when 1 w 1270
people 1 w 1276
are 7 w 1279
completely 1 w 1289
unable 1 w 1295
to 10 w 1297
guard 1 w 1302
against 1 w 1309
them 2 w 1313
unless 1 w 1321
perhaps 1 w 1328
you 10 w 1331
maintain 1 w 1339
that 7 w 1343
a 100 w 1344
man 4 w 1347
who 3 w 1350
knows 1 w 1355
in 23 w 1357
advance 1 w 1364
that 8 w 1368
he 36 w 1370
is 8 w 1372
to 11 w 1374
die 1 w 1377
by 2 w 1379
an 28 w 1381
iron 1 w 1385
spear-head 1 w 1395
can 1 w 1398
escape 1 w 1404
death 1 w 1409
by 3 w 1411
shutting 1 w 1419
himself 1 w 1426
up 6 w 1428
No 1 w 1431
it 10 w 1434
is 9 w 1436
impossible 1 w 1446
for 7 w 1450
Fate 7 w 1454
will 1 w 1458
take 1 w 1462
him 3 w 1465
out 2 w 1468
hunting 1 w 1475
and 15 w 1478
deliver 1 w 1485
him 4 w 1488
up 7 w 1490
to 12 w 1492
the 32 w 1495
spear-head 2 w 1505
and 16 w 1509
Adrastus 1 w 1517
throwing 1 w 1526
his 2 w 1529
weapon 1 w 1535
at 22 w 1537
the 33 w 1540
boar 1 w 1544
will 2 w 1549
miss 1 w 1553
it 11 w 1555
and 17 w 1558
slay 1 w 1562
the 34 w 1565
son 2 w 1568
of 10 w 1570
Croesus 1 w 1577
as 10 w 1580
if 7 w 1582
the 35 w 1585
javelin 1 w 1592
were 2 w 1596
sped 1 w 1600
at 23 w 1602
the 36 w 1605
lad 1 w 1608
by 4 w 1610
a 127 w 1611
powerful 1 w 1619
cast 1 w 1623
of 11 w 1625
the 37 w 1628
Fates 6 w 1633
See 1 w 1637
Herodotus 1 w 1646
1 1 w 1648
34 1 w 1651
ff 1 w 1653
Indeed 1 w 1660
the 38 w 1664
oracle 1 w 1670
of 12 w 1672
Laius 1 w 1677
is 12 w 1679
really 1 w 1685
ridiculous 1 w 1695
Sow 1 w 1699
not 5 w 1702
the 39 w 1705
birth-field 1 w 1716
in 28 w 1718
the 40 w 1721
gods 2 w 1725
despite 1 w 1733
For 1 w 1737
if 8 w 1739
thou 1 w 1743
get 1 w 1746
st 13 w 1749
thy 1 w 1753
son 3 w 1756
will 3 w 1760
lay 3 w 1763
thee 1 w 1767
low 1 w 1770
Euripides 1 w 1780
Phoenissae 1 w 1791
18-19 1 w 1797
It 1 w 1799
was 1 w 1802
superfluous 1 w 1813
I 10 w 1815
take 2 w 1819
it 13 w 1821
to 13 w 1824
caution 1 w 1831
against 2 w 1838
what 2 w 1842
was 2 w 1845
bound 1 w 1850
to 14 w 1852
be 7 w 1854
so 8 w 1856
in 30 w 1858
any 4 w 1861
event 3 w 1866
Consequently 1 w 1879
after 1 w 1884
the 42 w 1887
oracle 2 w 1893
he 50 w 1895
sowed 1 w 1900
his 3 w 1903
seed 1 w 1907
and 18 w 1910
his 4 w 1913
son 4 w 1916
laid 1 w 1920
him 5 w 1923
low 2 w 1926
I 11 w 1928
don 2 w 1931
t 174 w 1933
see 3 w 1936
therefore 1 w 1946
on 21 w 1949
what 3 w 1953
ground 1 w 1959
you 11 w 1962
demand 1 w 1968
your 1 w 1972
fee 1 w 1975
for 9 w 1978
making 1 w 1984
prophecies 1 w 1994
I 12 w 1996
say 3 w 1999
nothing 1 w 2006
of 13 w 2008
the 44 w 2011
fact 1 w 2015
that 9 w 2019
you 13 w 2022
are 8 w 2025
accustomed 1 w 2035
to 16 w 2037
give 1 w 2041
most 2 w 2045
people 2 w 2051
perplexed 1 w 2060
and 20 w 2063
ambiguous 1 w 2072
responses 1 w 2081
not 7 w 2085
making 2 w 2091
it 14 w 2093
at 28 w 2095
all 7 w 2098
clear 1 w 2103
whether 1 w 2110
the 46 w 2113
man 6 w 2116
who 4 w 2119
crosses 1 w 2126
the 47 w 2129
Halys 1 w 2134
will 4 w 2138
cause 2 w 2143
the 48 w 2146
loss 1 w 2150
of 14 w 2152
his 5 w 2155
own 1 w 2158
kingdom 1 w 2165
or 19 w 2167
that 10 w 2171
of 15 w 2173
Cyrus 1 w 2178
for 10 w 2182
the 49 w 2185
oracle 3 w 2191
can 2 w 2194
be 8 w 2196
taken 1 w 2201
in 35 w 2203
either 1 w 2209
sense 1 w 2214
It 2 w 2217
ran 1 w 2220
If 1 w 2223
Croesus 2 w 2230
doth 1 w 2234
the 51 w 2237
Halys 2 w 2242
cross 2 w 2247
He 2 w 2249
ll 17 w 2252
cause 3 w 2257
a 171 w 2258
mighty 1 w 2264
kingdom 2 w 2271
s 166 w 2273
loss 2 w 2277
ZEUS 4 w 2282
Apollo 1 w 2288
had 1 w 2291
some 2 w 2295
reason 2 w 2301
for 11 w 2304
being 1 w 2309
angry 1 w 2314
at 30 w 2316
Croesus 3 w 2323
because 2 w 2330
he 62 w 2332
had 2 w 2335
tested 1 w 2341
him 6 w 2344
by 5 w 2346
stewing 1 w 2353
lamb 1 w 2357
and 21 w 2360
turtle 1 w 2366
together 1 w 2374
Wishing 1 w 2382
to 18 w 2384
test 2 w 2388
the 53 w 2391
Greek 1 w 2396
oracles 1 w 2403
before 1 w 2409
consulting 1 w 2419
them 3 w 2423
about 2 w 2428
invading 1 w 2436
Persia 1 w 2442
Croesus 4 w 2450
sent 1 w 2454
representatives 1 w 2469
to 19 w 2471
some 3 w 2475
of 16 w 2477
the 55 w 2480
most 3 w 2484
famous 1 w 2490
with 3 w 2494
instructions 1 w 2506
to 20 w 2508
ask 2 w 2511
them 4 w 2515
all 8 w 2518
simultaneously 1 w 2532
at 32 w 2535
a 190 w 2536
specified 1 w 2545
time 1 w 2550
What 2 w 2556
is 18 w 2558
Croesus 5 w 2565
doing 2 w 2570
now 3 w 2573
Apollo 2 w 2581
divined 1 w 2588
that 11 w 2592
he 68 w 2594
was 3 w 2597
stewing 2 w 2604
lamb 2 w 2608
and 22 w 2611
turtle 2 w 2617
together 2 w 2625
in 47 w 2627
a 196 w 2628
copper 1 w 2634
cauldron 1 w 2642
with 4 w 2646
a 198 w 2647
lid 1 w 2650
of 17 w 2652
copper 2 w 2658
Herodotus 2 w 2668
i 149 w 2670
46 1 w 2673
ff 2 w 2675
CYNISCUS 4 w 2686
He 4 w 2688
should 3 w 2694
not 8 w 2697
have 3 w 2701
been 1 w 2705
angry 2 w 2710
being 2 w 2716
a 201 w 2717
god 3 w 2720
However 1 w 2728
the 58 w 2732
very 2 w 2736
deception 1 w 2745
of 18 w 2747
the 59 w 2750
Lydian 1 w 2756
was 4 w 2759
predetermined 1 w 2772
I 16 w 2774
suppose 3 w 2781
and 23 w 2785
in 50 w 2787
general 1 w 2794
our 5 w 2797
lack 1 w 2801
of 19 w 2803
definite 1 w 2811
information 1 w 2822
about 3 w 2827
the 60 w 2830
future 2 w 2836
is 19 w 2838
due 1 w 2841
to 22 w 2843
the 61 w 2846
spindle 2 w 2853
of 20 w 2855
Destiny 4 w 2862
so 14 w 2865
even 8 w 2869
your 2 w 2873
soothsaying 1 w 2884
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in 56 w 2888
her 8 w 2891
province 1 w 2899
ZEUS 5 w 2904
Then 1 w 2908
you 15 w 2911
leave 1 w 2916
nothing 2 w 2923
for 14 w 2926
us 25 w 2928
and 24 w 2932
we 9 w 2934
are 9 w 2937
gods 3 w 2941
to 23 w 2943
no 21 w 2945
purpose 2 w 2952
not 10 w 2956
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any 5 w 2971
providence 2 w 2981
to 24 w 2983
the 62 w 2986
world 1 w 2991
and 25 w 2994
not 11 w 2997
deserving 1 w 3006
our 7 w 3009
sacrifices 2 w 3019
like 2 w 3024
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or 28 w 3032
adzes 2 w 3037
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truth 1 w 3048
Indeed 2 w 3055
it 19 w 3058
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to 25 w 3065
me 14 w 3067
that 12 w 3071
you 16 w 3074
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me 15 w 3081
with 5 w 3085
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because 3 w 3099
although 1 w 3107
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you 17 w 3114
see 5 w 3117
I 18 w 3119
have 4 w 3123
a 223 w 3124
thunderbolt 1 w 3135
clenched 1 w 3143
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my 1 w 3147
hand 1 w 3151
I 19 w 3153
am 7 w 3155
letting 1 w 3162
you 18 w 3165
say 5 w 3168
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this 1 w 3175
against 3 w 3182
us 27 w 3184
CYNISCUS 5 w 3193
Strike 1 w 3199
Zeus 2 w 3204
if 11 w 3207
it 21 w 3209
is 22 w 3211
fated 1 w 3216
that 13 w 3220
I 21 w 3221
am 8 w 3223
really 2 w 3229
to 26 w 3231
be 15 w 3233
struck 1 w 3239
by 6 w 3241
lightning 1 w 3250
and 27 w 3254
I 22 w 3255
won 1 w 3258
t 284 w 3260
blame 1 w 3265
you 19 w 3268
for 15 w 3271
the 63 w 3274
stroke 1 w 3280
but 4 w 3283
Clotho 2 w 3289
who 5 w 3293
inflicts 1 w 3301
the 64 w 3304
injury 1 w 3310
through 2 w 3317
you 20 w 3320
for 16 w 3324
even 9 w 3328
the 65 w 3331
thunderbolt 2 w 3342
itself 1 w 3348
I 23 w 3350
should 4 w 3356
say 6 w 3359
would 5 w 3365
not 12 w 3368
be 16 w 3370
the 66 w 3373
cause 6 w 3378
of 21 w 3380
the 67 w 3383
injury 2 w 3389
There 1 w 3395
is 23 w 3397
another 1 w 3404
question 1 w 3412
however 1 w 3420
which 2 w 3426
I 24 w 3427
will 5 w 3431
put 2 w 3434
to 27 w 3436
you 21 w 3439
and 28 w 3442
to 28 w 3444
Destiny 5 w 3451
and 29 w 3455
you 22 w 3458
can 3 w 3461
answer 1 w 3467
for 17 w 3470
her 11 w 3473
You 2 w 3477
have 5 w 3481
put 3 w 3484
me 17 w 3486
in 70 w 3488
mind 1 w 3492
of 22 w 3494
it 23 w 3496
by 7 w 3498
your 3 w 3502
threat 1 w 3508