Lesser Hippias (365-366)

Hipp.

Not at all, Socrates; he made him most simple; for in The Prayers, when he depicts them talking with one another, he makes Achilles say to Odysseus: [*]

Zeus-born son of Laertes, wily Odysseus, I must speak out the word without refraining, as I shall act and think will be accomplished and pray do not mutter in discord sitting here beside me. For hateful to me as the gates of Hades

is he who hides one thing in his heart and says another. But I shall speak that which shall be accomplished.

Hom. Il. 308 ff.In these lines he makes plain the character of each of the men, that Achilles is true and simple, and Odysseus wily and false for he represents Achilles as saying these lines to Odysseus.

Soc.

Now at last, Hippias, I think I understand what you mean; you mean that the wily man is false, apparently.

Hipp.

Certainly, Socrates; for Homer represents Odysseus as that sort of a man in many passages of both Iliad and Odyssey.

Soc.

Homer, then, as it seems, thought that a true man was one man and a false man another, but not the same.

Hipp.

Of course he did, Socrates.

Soc.

And do you think so yourself, Hippias?

Hipp.

Most assuredly; for it would be strange if I did not.

Soc.

Then let us drop Homer,

since it is impossible to ask him what he meant when he made those verses; but since you come forward to take up his cause, and agree in this which you say is his meaning, do you answer for Homer and yourself in common.

Hipp.

Very well; ask briefly whatever you like.

Soc.

Do you say that the false are, like the sick, without power to do anything, or that they have power to do something?

Hipp.

I say that they have great power to do many things, and especially to deceive people.

Soc.

They are, then, powerful, according to you, and wily, are they not?

Hipp.

Yes.

Soc.

But are they wily and deceivers by reason of simplicity and folly, or by reason of shrewdness and a sort of intelligence?

Hipp.

By shrewdness, most assuredly, and intelligence.

Soc.

They are intelligent, then, as it seems.

Hipp.

Yes, by Zeus, too much so.

Soc.

And being intelligent, do they know what they are doing, or do they not know?

Hipp.

Yes, they know very well; that is why they do harm.

Soc.

And knowing these things which they know, are they ignorant, or wise?

Hipp.

Wise, surely, in just this, deception.

Soc.

Stop. Let us recall what you say. You say that the false are powerful and intelligent, and knowing and wise in those things in which they are false?

Hipp.

Yes, I do.

Soc.

And that the true and the false are different and complete opposites of one another?

Hipp.

I do.

Soc.

Well, then, the false are among the powerful and the wise, according to your statement.

Hipp.

Certainly.

Soc.

And when you say that the false are powerful and wise for falsehood, do you mean that they have power to utter falsehoods if they like, or that they are powerless in respect to the falsehoods which they utter?

Hipp.

That they have power.

Soc.

In short, then, the false are those who are wise and powerful in uttering falsehoods.

Hipp.

Yes.

Soc.

A man, then, who has not the power to utter falsehoods and is ignorant would not be false.

Hipp.

That is true.

Soc.

Well, but every man has power who does what he wishes at the time when he wishes;

I am not speaking of one who is prevented by disease or that sort of thing, but as I might say of you that you have power to write my name when you wish or do you not say that a man has power who is in such a condition?

Hipp.

Yes, I do.

Soc.

Tell me, then, Hippias, are you not skillful in arithmetical calculations?

Hipp.

Most assuredly, Socrates.

Soc.

Then if some one were to ask you what the product of three times seven hundred is, you could, if you wished,

tell him the truth about that more quickly and better than anyone else?

Hipp.

Certainly.

Soc.

Because you are the most powerful and wisest of men in these matters?

Hipp.

Yes.

Soc.

Are you, then, merely wisest and most powerful, or are you also best in those matters in which you are most powerful and wisest, namely calculations?

Hipp.

Best also, to be sure, Socrates.

Soc.

Then you would have the greatest power to tell the truth about these things, would you not?

Hipp.

I think so.