Theages (123)

Soc. And you think you are still lacking in some knowledge which it behoves your father to provide for you?

The. I do

Soc. What knowledge is it? Tell us on our side, that we may oblige you.

The. He knows it, as well as I, Socrates, since I have often told him; only he says this to you of set purpose, making as if he did not know what I desire. For he assails me too with other statements of the same sort, and refuses to place me with any instructor.

Soc. Well, what you said to him before was spoken, as it were, without witnesses; but now you shall take me as a witness, and declare before me what is this wisdom that you desire. Come now; suppose you desired the wisdom whereby men steer a ship, and I happened to put this further question to you: Theages, what wisdom is it that you lack, when you blame your father for refusing to place you with people who would enable you to become wise? What answer would you have given me? What wisdom would you name? The steersman’s art, would you not?

The. Yes.

Soc. And if a desire to be wise in the wisdom whereby they steer chariots led you to blame your father, and I asked what wisdom this was, what would you name in reply? The charioteer’s art, would you not?

The. Yes.

Soc. And is that which you happen to be desiring now a nameless one, or has it a name?

The. I should say it has a name.

Soc. Now do you know it, though not its name, or do you know its name as well?

The. I know its name as well.

Soc. Then what is it? Tell me.

The. What other name, Socrates, can one give it but wisdom?

Soc. And the driver’s art too is wisdom? Or do you think it is ignorance?

The. I do not.

Soc. You call it wisdom?

The. Yes.

Soc. What use do we make of it? Is it not the art whereby we know how to govern a team of horses?

The. Yes.

Soc. And the steersman’s art too is wisdom?

The. I think so.

Soc. Is not this the art whereby we know how to govern ships?

The. Yes, it is.

Soc. And the wisdom that you so desire, what is it? That whereby we know how to govern whom?

The. To govern men, I imagine.

Soc. Sick men, do you mean?

The. Oh, no.

Soc. For that is medicine, is it not?

The. Yes.

Soc. Well, that whereby we know how to govern the singers in a chorus?

The. No.

Soc. For that is music?

The. To be sure.

Soc. Well, that whereby we know how to govern men in gymnastic training?

The. No.

Soc. For that is gymnastics?

The. Yes.

Soc. Well, to govern people who do what? Endeavor your best to speak, as I did to you at the beginning.