Scaife ATLAS

On Listening to Lectures (9-11)

urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0007.tlg069.perseus-eng3:9-11

Refs	`{'start': {'reference': '9', 'human_reference': 'Section 9'}, 'end': {'reference': '11', 'human_reference': 'Section 11'}}`
Ancestors	`[]`
Children	`[]`

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Let the young man, then, find pleasure when

he finds profit from a discourse; but he should not hold that the pleasure derived from the lecture is an end in itself, nor would I have him hum a merry note or show a jovial face as he leaves the philosopher’s school, any more than he should seek to be sprinkled with perfume when he needs a fomentation and a hot poultice; but he should feel grateful if by pungent discourse someone has cleansed his mind teeming with fogginess and dullness, as a beehive is cleared by smoke. For even though it is quite right for a speaker not to be altogether neglectful of pleasantness and persuasion in his style, yet the young man should make least concern of this, at any rate at first. Afterwards no doubt he may have an eye to that; for just as those who drink, after they have quenched their thirst, begin then to observe the ornamentation of the drinking-cups and to turn them about, so the young man, when he is well replenished with doctrines and has some respite, may be allowed to inspect the style to see whether it contains anything elegant and exquisite. But he who at the very outset does not stick to the subject matter, but insists that the style shall be pure Attic and severely plain, is like the man who is unwilling to swallow an antidote for a poison unless the cup be of the finest Attic ware, or unwilling to put on an overcoat in winter unless the wool be from Attic sheep, but must needs sit still and inactive, with a delicate thin jacket of Lysias’s language cast over him. Indeed, this sort of unhealthiness has produced much barrenness of mind and of good sense, much foolery and bibble-babble in the schools, since younger men do not keep in view the life, the actions, and the public conduct of a man who follows philosophy, but rate

as matters for commendation points of style and phrasing, and a fine delivery, while as for what is being delivered, whether it be useful or useless, whether essential or empty and superfluous, they neither understand nor wish to inquire.

This leads up to the matter of proposing problems. Now the person who comes to a dinner is bound to eat what is set before him and not to ask for anything else or to be critical; so he who comes to a feast of reason, if it be on a specified subject, must feel bound to listen to the speaker in silence. For those persons who lead the speaker to digress to other topics, and interject questions, and raise new difficulties, are not pleasant or agreeable company at a lecture; they get no benefit from it, and they confuse both the speaker and his speech. However, when the speaker requests his hearers to ask questions or to propose problems, one should always manifestly propose some problem which is useful and essential. Now Odysseus among the suitors is derided for

Asking for morsels of food and not for swords or for cauldrons,[*]

for they regard it just as much a sign of magnanimity to ask for something great as to give it. But there is more reason for ridiculing a hearer who diverts the speaker to petty and frivolous problems, such as some of the young men are in the habit of proposing when they are only fooling and withal showing off their skill in logic or mathematics; take, for example, the question about the division of indeterminate propositions [*] or What is movement as determined by the bounding side or by the diagonal ? [*] To such [*]

persons we may retort with the remark of Philotimus [*] to the man who was dying of consumption. When he had addressed the physician, asking him for something to cure a sore finger, Philotimus, perceiving his condition from his colour and respiration, said,My dear sir, your concern is not about a sore finger. And so for you, young man, it is not the time to be inquiring about such questions, but how you may be rid of self-opinion and pretension, love affairs and nonsense, and settle down to a modest and wholesome mode of living.

It is quite necessary that in formulating questions the questioner should accommodate himself to the proficiency or natural capacity of the speaker, to those matters in which he is at his best [*]; not forcibly to divert one who is more concerned with the ethical side of philosophy, by plying him with questions in natural science or mathematics, or to drag the man who poses as an authority on natural science into passing judgement on the hypothetical propositions [*] of logic or solutions of quibbles like the Liar Problem.[*] For just as one who should go about to split wood with a key, or to open his door with an axe, would not be thought to offer an indignity to those instruments but to deprive himself of the proper use and function of each, so those persons who ask of a speaker something for which he is not apt by nature or by practice, and do not gather and take what he has to offer, not only suffer harm thereby, but also incur the name and blame of malice and hostility as well.

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dying	1	w	3150
of	25	w	3152
consumption	1	w	3163
When	2	w	3168
he	87	w	3170
had	1	w	3173
addressed	1	w	3182
the	60	w	3185
physician	1	w	3194
asking	1	w	3201
him	4	w	3204
for	16	w	3207
something	2	w	3216
to	33	w	3218
cure	1	w	3222
a	206	w	3223
sore	1	w	3227
finger	1	w	3233
Philotimus	2	w	3244
perceiving	1	w	3255
his	8	w	3258
condition	1	w	3267
from	5	w	3271
his	9	w	3274
colour	1	w	3280
and	27	w	3283
respiration	1	w	3294
said	1	w	3299
My	1	w	3302
dear	1	w	3306
sir	1	w	3309
your	1	w	3314
concern	2	w	3321
is	33	w	3323
not	9	w	3326
about	3	w	3331
a	212	w	3332
sore	2	w	3336
finger	2	w	3342
And	1	w	3346
so	20	w	3348
for	17	w	3351
you	7	w	3354
young	6	w	3360
man	10	w	3363
it	36	w	3366
is	34	w	3368
not	10	w	3371
the	61	w	3374
time	1	w	3378
to	34	w	3380
be	15	w	3382
inquiring	1	w	3391
about	4	w	3396
such	3	w	3400
questions	3	w	3409
but	6	w	3413
how	3	w	3416
you	9	w	3419
may	4	w	3422
be	16	w	3424
rid	3	w	3427
of	26	w	3429
self-opinion	1	w	3441
and	28	w	3444
pretension	1	w	3454
love	1	w	3459
affairs	1	w	3466
and	29	w	3469
nonsense	1	w	3477
and	30	w	3481
settle	1	w	3487
down	1	w	3491
to	35	w	3493
a	221	w	3494
modest	1	w	3500
and	31	w	3503
wholesome	1	w	3512
mode	2	w	3516
of	27	w	3518
living	1	w	3524
It	1	w	3527
is	35	w	3529
quite	2	w	3534
necessary	1	w	3543
that	4	w	3547
in	72	w	3549
formulating	1	w	3560
questions	4	w	3569
the	62	w	3572
questioner	1	w	3582
should	6	w	3588
accommodate	1	w	3599
himself	1	w	3606
to	36	w	3608
the	63	w	3611
proficiency	1	w	3622
or	51	w	3624
natural	1	w	3631
capacity	1	w	3639
of	29	w	3641
the	64	w	3644
speaker	7	w	3651
to	37	w	3654
those	3	w	3659
matters	2	w	3666
in	74	w	3668
which	4	w	3673
he	93	w	3675
is	36	w	3677
at	35	w	3679
his	10	w	3682
best	1	w	3686
An	2	w	3688
adaptation	1	w	3698
of	30	w	3700
a	238	w	3701
line	5	w	3705
from	6	w	3709
the	65	w	3712
Antiope	1	w	3719
of	31	w	3721
Euripides	1	w	3730
Nauck	1	w	3737
Trag	1	w	3742
Graec	1	w	3748
Frag	1	w	3753
Eurip	2	w	3760
No	3	w	3764
183	1	w	3768
not	11	w	3774
forcibly	1	w	3782
to	38	w	3784
divert	2	w	3790
one	4	w	3793
who	11	w	3796
is	38	w	3798
more	3	w	3802
concerned	1	w	3811
with	7	w	3815
the	66	w	3818
ethical	1	w	3825
side	2	w	3829
of	32	w	3831
philosophy	2	w	3841
by	8	w	3844
plying	1	w	3850
him	6	w	3853
with	8	w	3857
questions	5	w	3866
in	77	w	3868
natural	2	w	3875
science	1	w	3882
or	54	w	3884
mathematics	2	w	3895
or	55	w	3898
to	39	w	3900
drag	1	w	3904
the	68	w	3907
man	11	w	3910
who	12	w	3913
poses	1	w	3918
as	30	w	3920
an	62	w	3922
authority	1	w	3931
on	50	w	3933
natural	3	w	3940
science	2	w	3947
into	1	w	3951
passing	1	w	3958
judgement	1	w	3967
on	51	w	3969
the	69	w	3972
hypothetical	1	w	3984
propositions	2	w	3996
Such	1	w	4000
as	32	w	4002
If	1	w	4005
Plato	1	w	4010
walks	1	w	4015
Plato	2	w	4021
moves	2	w	4026
If	2	w	4029
it	43	w	4031
is	39	w	4033
daytime	1	w	4040
the	71	w	4044
sun	1	w	4047
is	40	w	4049
in	80	w	4051
the	72	w	4054
sky	1	w	4057
of	33	w	4060
logic	3	w	4065
or	57	w	4067
solutions	1	w	4076
of	34	w	4078
quibbles	1	w	4086
like	2	w	4090
the	73	w	4093
Liar	1	w	4097
Problem	1	w	4104
If	3	w	4107
I	7	w	4108
say	1	w	4111
that	5	w	4115
I	8	w	4116
lie	1	w	4119
when	6	w	4123
I	9	w	4124
am	4	w	4126
lying	2	w	4131
do	7	w	4134
I	10	w	4135
lie	2	w	4138
or	58	w	4140
tell	1	w	4144
the	74	w	4147
truth	1	w	4152
For	3	w	4156
just	3	w	4160
as	33	w	4162
one	5	w	4165
who	13	w	4168
should	7	w	4174
go	5	w	4176
about	5	w	4181
to	43	w	4183
split	1	w	4188
wood	1	w	4192
with	9	w	4196
a	268	w	4197
key	1	w	4200
or	60	w	4203
to	44	w	4205
open	1	w	4209
his	11	w	4212
door	1	w	4216
with	10	w	4220
an	63	w	4222
axe	1	w	4225
would	2	w	4231
not	12	w	4234
be	18	w	4236
thought	1	w	4243
to	45	w	4245
offer	1	w	4250
an	64	w	4252
indignity	1	w	4261
to	46	w	4263
those	4	w	4268
instruments	1	w	4279
but	7	w	4282
to	47	w	4284
deprive	1	w	4291
himself	2	w	4298
of	36	w	4300
the	75	w	4303
proper	1	w	4309
use	5	w	4312
and	32	w	4315
function	1	w	4323
of	37	w	4325
each	1	w	4329
so	24	w	4332
those	5	w	4337
persons	3	w	4344
who	14	w	4347
ask	5	w	4350
of	38	w	4352
a	275	w	4353
speaker	8	w	4360
something	3	w	4369
for	20	w	4372
which	5	w	4377
he	106	w	4379
is	42	w	4381
not	13	w	4384
apt	2	w	4387
by	9	w	4389
nature	1	w	4395
or	63	w	4397
by	10	w	4399
practice	1	w	4407
and	33	w	4411
do	9	w	4413
not	14	w	4416
gather	1	w	4422
and	34	w	4425
take	2	w	4429
what	3	w	4433
he	108	w	4435
has	4	w	4438
to	48	w	4440
offer	2	w	4445
not	15	w	4449
only	2	w	4453
suffer	1	w	4459
harm	1	w	4463
thereby	1	w	4470
but	8	w	4474
also	1	w	4478
incur	1	w	4483
the	78	w	4486
name	2	w	4490
and	35	w	4493
blame	1	w	4498
of	40	w	4500
malice	1	w	4506
and	36	w	4509
hostility	1	w	4518
as	36	w	4520
well	2	w	4524