Timokles Very well. Tell me, then, is it your opinion, accursed wretch, that the gods exert no providence? Damis They do not. Timokles What, is the universe, then, not the result of design? Damis It is not. Timokles And did no god arrange the whole superintendence of things either? Damis No. Timokles But all things are borne along haphazard by an unreasoning current? Damis Yes. Timokles Now can you men endure to hear this and not stone the guilty wretch? Damis Why do you stir up the audience against me, Timokles? And who are you to show anger in the gods' behalf when they are not angry themselves? At least they have not handled me roughly, though they have heard me for a long time, supposing they do hear. Timokles They hear, Damis, they hear, and they will take vengeance on you some day. Damis And when would they have leisure for my case if, as you say, they are full of cares, managing the universe, infinite as it is? That is the reason they have not yet even punished you for your continual perjuries and your other crimes, which I will not specify lest I should be driven to use abusive language myself, contrary to our agreement. And yet I do not see how they could produce better proof of their own providence than by bringing your bad life to a bad end. But clearly they have gone abroad, across the ocean, perchance to visit the "blameless Ethiopians." At least it is their habit to go constantly to dine with them, and sometimes on their own invitation. Timokles What shall I say in reply to such shameless effrontery? Damis What I have been yearning to hear from you this long time: how you came to believe in the providence of the gods. Timokles I was convinced of it first by the order of natural events: the sun who always travels the same road and the moon similarly, and the recurring seasons, and the growth of plants, and the birth of animals, and these animals themselves so ingeniously contrived that they feed themselves and reason, and move about and walk, and build houses and make shoes, and all the rest of it. Do not these seem to you the works of providence? Damis Why, Timokles, you have assumed the very question in dispute, for it remains to be seen. whether each of these is accomplished by providence. That natural events are such as you describe I, too, admit, but it does not follow of necessity that they owe their existence to any intelligent foresight. For it is possible that they had some other origin, and yet have now a consistent and methodical existence. But this forced action of theirs you call 'order,' and then, forsooth, you fly into a rage if some one rejects your argument when, after recounting and praising the nature of objects, you go on to believe that this is a proof that each of them is also put in its place by providence. Wherefore, in the words of the comic poet, This is too feeble, tell me something else. Timokles For my part, I do not think that additional proof is necessary; but still I will go on. Answer me, do you consider Homer the best of poets? Damis Certainly. Timokles Well, he convinced me by setting forth the providence of the gods. Damis But, my astonishing friend, every one will grant you that Homer is a great poet, but not that he or any poet whatsoever is a reliable witness in these matters. For their concern, I imagine, is not for truth, but to charm their hearers; and on this account they lull us with metres and amuse us with stories, and devise the whole thing in the interests of pleasure. Still, I should be pleased to hear what passages of Homer chiefly convinced you. Probably those in which he speaks of Zeus, and tells how his daughter and his brother and his wife plotted to put him in irons. And if Thetis had not perceived what was going on and called Briareos, our glorious Zeus would have been seized and tied up. It was in return for this and to repay his obligation to Thetis that he deceived Agamemnon by sending him a false dream for the destruction of many Greeks. Notice that he was unable to launch a thunderbolt and burn up Agamemnon himself, but must assume the role of cheat. Or was conviction forced upon you chiefly when you heard how Diomedes wounded Aphrodite and then Ares himself at the suggestion of Athene, and how the gods themselves fell to after a little and fought duels indiscriminately, gods and goddesses together, and how Athene overcame Ares because, I imagine, he was weak from the wound he had already got from Diomedes, and Hermes, the ready-helper, stoutly stood against Leto? Or did the account of Artemis strike you as convincing, telling how her discontented nature was angered because Oineus did not ask her to his banquet, and how, accordingly, she let loose upon his land a certain boar of surpassing size and irresistible strength? Was it, then, by such narratives as these that Homer convinced you?