Sympos

Com.

A trainer.

Soc.

He is the best man to pasture Here νόμος is connected with a special use of νέμειν — find appropriate pasture for —derived from its original meaning of apportion. the human herd of the body? The awkward imagery of this sentence obviously cannot have come from Plato’s mind or hand.

Com.

Yes.

Soc.

And who is the best man to pasture a flock of sheep? What is his name?

Com.

A shepherd.

Soc.

Then the shepherd’s laws are best for sheep.

Com.

Yes.

Soc.

And the herdsman’s for oxen.

Com.

Yes.

Soc.

And whose laws are best for the souls of men? The king’s, are they not? Say if you agree.

Com.

I do.

Soc.

Then you are quite right. Now can you tell me who, in former times, has proved himself a good lawgiver in regard to the laws of flute-playing? Perhaps you cannot think of him: would you like me to remind you?

Com.

Do by all means.

Soc.

Then is it Marsyas, by tradition, and his beloved Olympus, the Phrygian?

Com.

That is true.

Soc.

And their flute-tunes also are most divine, and alone stir and make manifest those who are in need of the gods; Cf. Sympos. 215 C (from which this allusion to Marsyas is feebly imitated) δηλοῖ τοὺς τῶν θεῶν τε καὶ τελετῶν δεομένους, where in need of the gods seems to be a mystic phrase for ready for divine possession (ἐνθουσιασμός). and to this day they only remain, as being divine.

Com.

That is so.

Soc.

And who by tradition has shown himself a good lawgiver among the ancient kings, so that to this day his ordinances remain, as being divine?

Com.

I cannot think.

Soc.

Do you not know which of the Greeks use the most ancient laws?

Com.

Do you mean the Spartans, and Lycurgus the lawgiver?

Soc.

Why, that is a matter, I daresay, of less than three hundred years ago, or but a little more. But whence is it that the best of those ordinances come? Do you know?

Com.

From Crete, so they say.

Soc.

Then the people there use the most ancient laws in Greece?

Com.

Yes.

Soc.

Then do you know who were their good kings? Minos and Rhadamanthus, the sons of Zeus and Europa; those laws were theirs.

Com.

Rhadamanthus, they do say, Socrates, was a just man; but Minos was a savage sort of person, harsh and unjust.

Soc.

Your tale, my excellent friend, is a fiction of Attic tragedy.

Com.

What! Is not this the tradition about Minos?

Soc.

Not in Homer and Hesiod; and yet they are more to be believed than all the tragedians together, from whom you heard your tale.

Com.

Well, and what, pray, is their tale about Minos?