<TEI xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xmlns:py="http://codespeak.net/lxml/objectify/pytype" py:pytype="TREE"><text xml:lang="eng"><body><div type="translation" n="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg021.perseus-eng2" xml:lang="eng"><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="300"><said who="#Socrates" rend="merge"><label>Soc.</label><p><milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Euthydemus" direct="false">Tell me,</said> said Euthydemus, 

<milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="300"/><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="300a"/><said who="#Euthydemus" direct="false">do the Scythians and men in general see things possible of sight, or things impossible?</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Ctesippus" direct="false">Possible, I presume.</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Euthydemus" direct="false">And you do so too?</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Ctesippus" direct="false">I too.</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Euthydemus" direct="false">Then you see our cloaks?</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Ctesippus" direct="false">Yes.</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Euthydemus" direct="false">And have they power of sight?</said><note resp="Loeb" anchored="true">The quibble is on the double meaning of <foreign xml:lang="grc">δυνατὰ ὁρᾶν</foreign>—(a)<gloss>possible,</gloss> and (b)<gloss>able to see.</gloss> So in what follows, <foreign xml:lang="grc">σιγῶντα λέγειν</foreign> may mean both <gloss>the speaking of a silent person,</gloss> or <gloss>speaking of silent things.</gloss></note>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Ctesippus" direct="false">Quite extraordinarily,</said> said Ctesippus.

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Euthydemus" direct="false">What do they see?</said> he asked.

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Ctesippus" direct="false">Nothing. Perhaps you do not think they see—you are such a sweet innocent. I should say, Euthydemus, that you have fallen asleep with your eyes open and, if it be possible to speak and at the same time say nothing, <milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="300b"/>that this is what you are doing.</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">Why,</said> asked Dionysodorus, <said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">may there not be a speaking of the silent?</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Ctesippus" direct="false">By no means whatever,</said> replied Ctesippus.

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">Nor a silence of speaking?</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Ctesippus" direct="false">Still less,</said> he said.

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">Now, when you speak of stones and timbers and irons, are you not speaking of the silent?</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Ctesippus" direct="false">Not if I walk by a smithy, for there, as they say, the irons speak and cry aloud, when they are touched; so here your wisdom has seduced you into nonsense. But come, you have still to propound me your second point, <milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="300c"/>how on the other hand there may be a silence of speaking.</said> (It struck me that Ctesippus was specially excited on account of his young friend’s presence.)

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Euthydemus" direct="false">When you are silent,</said> said Euthydemus, <said who="#Euthydemus" direct="false">are you not making a silence of all things?</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Ctesippus" direct="false">Yes,</said> he replied.

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Euthydemus" direct="false">Then it is a silence of speaking things also, if the speaking are among all things.</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Ctesippus" direct="false">What,</said> said Ctesippus, <said who="#Ctesippus" direct="false">are not all things silent?</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Euthydemus" direct="false">I presume not,</said> said Euthydemus.

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Ctesippus" direct="false">But then, my good sir, do all things speak?</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Euthydemus" direct="false">Yes, I suppose, at least those that speak.</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Ctesippus" direct="false">But that is not what I ask,</said> he said: <said who="#Ctesippus" direct="false">are all things silent or do they speak?</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">Neither and both,</said> <milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="300d"/>said Dionysodorus, snatching the word from him: <said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">I am quite sure that is an answer that will baffle you!</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/>At this Ctesippus, as his manner was, gave a mighty guffaw, and said: <said who="#Ctesippus" direct="false">Ah, Euthydemus, your brother has made the argument ambiguous with his <q type="mentioned">both,</q> and is worsted and done for.</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/>Then Cleinias was greatly delighted and laughed, so that Ctesippus felt his strength was as the strength of ten: but I fancy Ctesippus—he is such a rogue—had picked up these very words by overhearing the men themselves, since in nobody else of the present age is such wisdom to be found. <milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="300e"/> So I remarked: Why are you laughing, Cleinias, at such serious and beautiful things?

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">What, have you, Socrates, ever yet seen a beautiful thing?</said> asked Dionysodorus.

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/>Yes, I have, I replied, and many of them, Dionysodorus.</p></said></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="301"><said who="#Socrates" rend="merge"><label>Soc.</label><p><milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">Did you find them different from the beautiful,</said> he said, 

<milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="301"/><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="301a"/><said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">or the same as the beautiful?</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/>Here I was desperately perplexed, and felt that I had my deserts for the grunt I had made: however, I replied that they were different from the beautiful itself, though each of them had some beauty present with it.

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">So if an ox is present with you,</said> he said, <said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">you are an ox, and since I am now present with you, you are Dionysodorus.</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/>Heavens, do not say that! I cried.

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">But in what way can one thing, by having a different thing present with it, be itself different?</said> 
						<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="301b"/> 
						
						<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/>Are you at a loss there? I asked: already I was attempting to imitate the cleverness of these men, I was so eager to get it.

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">Can I help being at a loss,</said> he said, <said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">I and likewise everybody else in the world, in face of what cannot be?</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/>What is that you say, Dionysodorus? I asked: is not the beautiful beautiful, and the ugly ugly?

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">Yes, if it seems so to me,</said> he replied.

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/>Then does it seem so?

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">Certainly,</said> he said.

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/>Then the same also is the same, and the different different? For I presume the different cannot be the same; nay, I thought <milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="301c"/>not even a child would doubt that the different is different. But, Dionysodorus, you have deliberately passed over this one point; though, on the whole, I feel that, like craftsmen finishing off each his special piece of work, you two are carrying out your disputation in excellent style.

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">Well,</said> he asked, <said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">do you know what is each craftsman’s special piece of work? First of all, whose proper task is it to forge brass? Can you tell?</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/>I can: a brazier’s.

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">Well, again, whose to make pots?</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/>A potter’s.

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">Once more, whose to slaughter and skin, <milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="301d"/>and after cutting up the joints to stew and roast?</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/>A caterer’s, I said.

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">Now, if one does one’s proper work,</said> he said, <said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">one will do rightly?</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/>Yes, to be sure.

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">And is it, as you say, the caterer’s proper work to cut up and skin? Did you admit this or not?</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/>I did so, I replied, but pray forgive me.

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">It is clear then,</said> he proceeded, <said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">that if someone slaughters the caterer and cuts him up, and then stews or roasts him, he will be doing his proper work; and if he hammers the brazier himself, and moulds the potter, he will be doing his business likewise.</said> <milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="301e"/> 
						
						<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/>Poseidon! I exclaimed, there you give the finishing touch to your wisdom. I wonder if this skill could ever come to me in such manner as to be my very own.

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">Would you recognize it, Socrates,</said> he asked, <said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">if it came to be your own?</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/>Yes, if only you are agreeable, I replied, without a doubt.

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/><said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">Why,</said> he went on, <said who="#Dionysodorus" direct="false">do you imagine you perceive what is yours?</said>

<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/>Yes, if I take your meaning aright: for all my hopes arise from you, and end in Euthydemus here.<note resp="Loeb" anchored="true">The Greek works follow a usual form of prayer or hymn to the gods.</note></p></said></div></div></body></text></TEI>