<TEI xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xmlns:py="http://codespeak.net/lxml/objectify/pytype" py:pytype="TREE"><text xml:lang="eng"><body><div type="translation" n="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg010.perseus-eng2" xml:lang="eng"><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="38"><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> Of course it does;  and in such a case, Socrates,
<milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="38"/><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="38a"/>we call the opinion false;  but nobody would ever call the actual pleasure false.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> You are an eager advocate of the case of pleasure just now, Protarchus.</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> Oh no, I merely say what I hear.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> Is there no difference, my friend, between the pleasure which is connected with right opinion and knowledge and that which often comes to each of us with falsehood and ignorance?</said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="38b"/><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> There is likely to be a great difference.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> Then let us proceed to the contemplation of the difference between them.</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> Lead on as you think best.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> Then this is the way I lead.</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> What way?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> Do we agree that there is such a thing as false opinion and also as true opinion?</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> There is.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> And, as we were saying just now, pleasure and pain often follow them—I mean true and false opinion.</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> Certainly.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> And do not opinion and the power of forming an opinion always come to us
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="38c"/>from memory and perception?</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> Certainly.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> Do we, then, believe that our relation to these faculties is somewhat as follows?</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> How?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> Would you say that often when a man sees things at a distance and not very clearly, he wishes to distinguish between the things which he sees?</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> Yes, I should say so.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> Next, then, would he not ask himself—</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> What?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label><q type="spoken">What is that which is visible standing
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="38d"/>beside the rock under a tree?</q>  Do you not think a man might ask himself such a question if he saw such objects presented to his view?</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> To be sure.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> And after that our gazer might reply to himself correctly <q type="spoken">It is a man</q>?</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> Certainly.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> Or, again, perhaps he might be misled into the belief that it was a work of some shepherds, and then he would call the thing which he saw an image.</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> Yes, indeed.</said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="38e"/><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> And if some one is with him, he might repeat aloud to his companion what he had said to himself, and thus that which we called an opinion now becomes a statement?</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> Certainly.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> But if he is alone when he has this thought, he sometimes carries it about in his mind for a long time.</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> Undoubtedly.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> Well, is your view about what takes place in such cases the same as mine?</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> What is yours?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> I think the soul at such a time is like a book.</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> How is that?</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="39"><milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="39"/><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="39a"/><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> Memory unites with the senses, and they and the feelings which are connected with them seem to me almost to write words in our souls;  and when the feeling in question writes the truth, true opinions and true statements are produced in us;  but when the writer within us writes falsehoods, the resulting opinions and statements are the opposite of true.</said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="39b"/><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> That is my view completely, and I accept it as stated.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> Then accept also the presence of another workman in our souls at such a time.</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> What workman?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> A painter, who paints in our souls pictures to illustrate the words which the writer has written.</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> But how do we say he does this, and when?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> When a man receives from sight or some other sense the opinions and utterances of the moment and afterwards beholds in his own mind the images of those opinions and utterances. 
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="39c"/>That happens to us often enough, does it not?</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> It certainly does.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> And the images of the true opinions are true, and those of the false are false?</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> Assuredly.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> Then if we are right about that, let us consider a further question.</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> What is it?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> Whether this is an inevitable experience in relation to the present and the past, but not in relation to the future.</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> It is in the same relation to all kinds of time.</said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="39d"/><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> Was it not said a while ago that the pleasures and pains which belong to the soul alone might come before the pleasures and pains of the body, so that we have the pleasure and pain of anticipation, which relate to the future?</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> Very true.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> Do the writings and pictures, then, which we imagined a little while ago to exist within us, relate to the past and present,
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="39e"/>but not to the future?</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> To the future especially.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> Do you say <q type="emph">to the future especially</q> because they are all hopes relating to the future and we are always filled with hopes all our lives?</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> Precisely.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> Well, here is a further question for you to answer.</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> What is it?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Soc.</label> A just, pious, and good man is surely a friend of the gods, is he not?</said></p><p><said who="#Protarchus"><label>Pro.</label> Certainly.</said></p></div></div></body></text></TEI>