<TEI xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xmlns:py="http://codespeak.net/lxml/objectify/pytype" py:pytype="TREE"><text xml:lang="eng"><body><div type="translation" n="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg007.perseus-eng2" xml:lang="eng"><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="251"><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> This point, then, let us put down definitely as one of complete perplexity.  But since being and not-being participate equally in the perplexity, there is now at last some hope that as either of them emerges more dimly or more clearly, so also will the other emerge. 
<milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="251"/><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="251a"/>If, however, we are able to see neither of them, we will at any rate push our discussion through between both of them at once as creditably as we can.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Good.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Let us, then, explain how we come to be constantly calling this same thing by many names.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> What, for instance?  Please give an example.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> We speak of man, you know, and give him many additional designations;  we attribute to him colors and forms and sizes and vices and virtues,
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="251b"/>and in all these cases and countless others we say not only that he is man, but we say he is good and numberless other things.  So in the same way every single thing which we supposed to be one, we treat as many and call by many names.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> True.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And it is in this way, I fancy, that we have provided a fine feast for youngsters and for old men whose learning has come to them late in life;  for example, it is easy enough for anyone to grasp the notion that the many cannot possibly be one, nor the one many, and so, apparently, they take pleasure in saying that we must not call a man good,
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="251c"/>but must call the good good, and a man man.  I fancy, Theaetetus, you often run across people who take such matters seriously;  sometimes they are elderly men whose poverty of intellect makes them admire such quibbles, and who think this is a perfect mine of wisdom they have discovered. <note anchored="true" resp="Loeb">Those are here satirized who deny the possibillty of all except identical predication.  Such were Antisthenes, Euthydemus, and Dionysodorus.  The two last are probably those referred to as old men whose learning came late in life.</note></said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Certainly.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Then, to include in our discussion all those who have ever engaged in any talk whatsoever about being,
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="251d"/>let us address our present arguments to these men as well as to all those with whom we were conversing before, and let us employ the form of questions.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> What are the arguments?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Shall we attribute neither being to rest and motion, nor any attribute to anything, but shall we in our discussions assume that they do not mingle and cannot participate in one another?  Or shall we gather all things together, believing that they are capable of combining with one another?  Or are some capable of it and others not?  Which of these alternatives,
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="251e"/>Theaetetus, should we say is their choice?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> I cannot answer these questions for them.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Then why did you not answer each separately and see what the result was in each case?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> A good suggestion.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And let us, if you please, assume that they say first that nothing has any power to combine with anything else.  Then motion and rest will have no share in being, will they?</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="252"><milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="252"/><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="252a"/><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> No.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Well, then, will either of them be, if it has no share in being?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> It will not.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> See how by this admission everything is overturned at once, as it seems—the doctrine of those who advocate universal motion, that of the partisans of unity and rest, and that of the men who teach that all existing things are distributed into invariable and everlasting kinds.  For all of these make use of being as an attribute.  One party says that the universe <q type="emph">is</q> in motion, another that it <q type="emph">is</q> at rest.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Exactly.</said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="252b"/><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And further, all who teach that things combine at one time and separate at another, whether infinite elements combine in unity and are derived from unity or finite elements separate and then unite, regardless of whether they say that these changes take place successively or without interruption, would be talking nonsense in all these doctrines, if there is no intermingling.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Quite right.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Then, too, the very men who forbid us to call anything by another name because it participates in the effect produced by another, would be made most especially ridiculous by this doctrine.</said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="252c"/><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> How so?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Because they are obliged in speaking of anything to use the expressions <q type="emph">to be,</q> <q type="emph">apart,</q> <q type="emph">from the rest,</q> <q type="emph">by itself,</q> and countless others;  they are powerless to keep away from them or avoid working them into their discourse; and therefore there is no need of others to refute them, but, as the saying goes, their enemy and future opponent is of their own household whom they always carry about with them as they go, giving forth speech from within them, like the wonderful Eurycles. <note anchored="true" resp="Loeb">Eurycles was a ventriloquist and soothsayer of the fifth century, cf. <bibl n="Aristoph. Wasps 1019.">Aristoph. Wasps 1019</bibl></note></said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="252d"/><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> That is a remarkably accurate illustration</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> But what if we ascribe to all things the power of participation in one another?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Even I can dispose of that assumption.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> How?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Because motion itself would be wholly at rest, and rest in turn would itself be in motion, if these two could be joined with one another.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> But surely this at least is most absolutely impossible, that motion be at rest and rest be in motion?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Of course.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Then only the third possibility is left.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Yes.</said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="252e"/><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And certainly one of these three must be true;  either all things will mingle with one another, or none will do so, or some will and others will not.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Of course.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And certainly the first two were found to be impossible.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Yes.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Then everybody who wishes to answer correctly will adopt the remaining one of the three possibilities.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Precisely.</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="253"><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label>  Now since some things will commingle and others will not,
<milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="253"/><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="253a"/>they are in much the same condition as the letters of the alphabet;  for some of these do not fit each other, and others do.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Of course.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And the vowels, to a greater degree than the others, run through them all as a bond, so that without one of the vowels the other letters cannot be joined one to another.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Certainly.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Now does everybody know which letters can join with which others?  Or does he who is to join them properly have need of art?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> He has need of art.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> What art?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> The art of grammar.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And is not the same true in connection with high and
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="253b"/>low sounds?  Is not he who has the art to know the sounds which mingle and those which do not, musical, and he who does not know unmusical?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Yes.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And we shall find similar conditions, then, in all the other arts and processes which are devoid of art?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Of course.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Now since we have agreed that the classes or genera also commingle with one another, or do not commingle, in the same way, must not he possess some science and proceed by the processes of reason who is to show correctly which of the classes harmonize with which, and which reject one another,
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="253c"/>and also if he is to show whether there are some elements extending through all and holding them together so that they can mingle, and again, when they separate, whether there are other universal causes of separation?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Certainly he needs science, and perhaps even the greatest of sciences.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Then, Theaetetus, what name shall we give to this science?  Or, by Zeus, have we unwittingly stumbled upon the science that belongs to free men and perhaps found the philosopher while we were looking for the sophist?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> What do you mean?</said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="253d"/><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Shall we not say that the division of things by classes and the avoidance of the belief that the same class is another, or another the same, belongs to the science of dialectic?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Yes, we shall.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Then he who is able to do this has a clear perception of one form or idea extending entirely through many individuals each of which lies apart, and of many forms differing from one another but included in one greater form, and again of one form evolved by the union of many wholes,
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="253e"/>and of many forms entirely apart and separate.  This is the knowledge and ability to distinguish by classes how individual things can or cannot be associated with one another.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Certainly it is.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> But you surely, I suppose, will not grant the art of dialectic to any but the man who pursues philosophy in purity and righteousness.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> How could it be granted to anyone else?</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="254"><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Then it is in some region like this that we shall always, both now and hereafter, discover the philosopher, if we look for him; 
<milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="254"/><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="254a"/>he also is hard to see clearly, but the difficulty is not the same in his case and that of the sophist.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> How do they differ?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> The sophist runs away into the darkness of not-being, feeling his way in it by practice, <note anchored="true" resp="Loeb">By practice, i.e., by empirical knowledge as opposed to reason.</note> and is hard to discern on account of the darkness of the place.  Don’t you think so?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> It seems likely.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> But the philosopher, always devoting himself through reason to the idea of being, is also very difficult to see on account of the brilliant light of the place;  for the eyes
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="254b"/>of the soul of the multitude are not strong enough to endure the sight of the divine.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> This also seems no less true than what you said about the sophist.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Now we will make more accurate investigations about the philosopher hereafter, if we still care to do so;  but as to the sophist, it is clear that we must not relax our efforts until we have a satisfactory view of him.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> You are right.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Since, therefore, we are agreed that some of the classes will mingle with one another, and others will not, and some will mingle with few and others with many, and that
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="254c"/>there is nothing to hinder some from mingling universally with all, let us next proceed with our discussion by investigating, not all the forms or ideas, lest we become confused among so many, but some only, selecting them from those that are considered the most important; let us first consider their several natures, then what their power of mingling with one another is, and so, if we cannot grasp being and not-being with perfect clearness, we shall at any rate not fail to reason fully about them, so far as the method of our present inquiry permits.  Let us in this way see whether it is, after all,
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="254d"/>permitted us to say that not-being really is, although not being, and yet come off unscathed.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Yes;  that is the proper thing for us to do.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> The most important, surely, of the classes or genera are those which we just mentioned;  being itself and rest and motion.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Yes, by far.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And further, two of them, we say, cannot mingle with each other.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Decidedly not.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> But being can mingle with both of them, for they both are.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Of course.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Then these prove to be three.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> To be sure.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Each of them is, then, other than the remaining two, but the same as itself.</said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="254e"/><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Yes.</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="255"><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> But what do we mean by these words, <q type="emph">the same</q> and <q type="emph">other,</q> which we have just used? Are they two new classes, different from the other three, but always of necessity mingled with them, and must we conduct our inquiry on the assumption that there are five classes, not three, or are we unconsciously speaking of one of those three
<milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="255"/><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="255a"/>when we say <q type="emph">the same</q> or <q type="emph">other</q>?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Perhaps.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> But certainly motion and rest are neither other nor the same.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> How so?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Whatever term we apply to rest and motion in common cannot be either of those two.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Why not?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Because motion would be at rest and rest would be in motion;  in respect of both, for whichever of the two became <q type="emph">other</q> would force the other to change its nature into that of its opposite, since
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="255b"/>it would participate in its opposite.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Exactly so.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Both certainly partake of the same and the other. <note anchored="true" resp="Loeb">i.e., sameness and difference can he predicated of both.</note></said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Yes.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Then we must not say that motion, or rest either, is the same or other.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> No.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> But should we conceive of <q type="emph">being</q> and <q type="emph">the same</q> as one?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Perhaps.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> But if <q type="emph">being</q> and <q type="emph">the same</q> have no difference of meaning, then when we go on and say that both rest and motion are, we shall be saying that they are both the same,
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="255c"/>since they are.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> But surely that is impossible.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Then it is impossible for being and the same to be one.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Pretty nearly.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> So we shall consider <q type="emph">the same</q> a fourth class in addition to the other three?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Certainly.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Then shall we call <q type="emph">the other</q> a fifth class?  Or must we conceive of this and <q type="emph">being</q> as two names for one class?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> May be.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> But I fancy you admit that among the entities some are always conceived as absolute, and some as relative.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Of course.</said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="255d"/><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And other is always relative to other, is it not?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Yes.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> It would not be so, if being and the other were not utterly different.  If the other, like being, partook of both absolute and relative existence, there would be also among the others that exist another not in relation to any other;  but as it is, we find that whatever is other is just what it is through compulsion of some other.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> The facts are as you say.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Then we must place the nature of <q type="emph">the other</q> as a fifth
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="255e"/>among the classes in which we select our examples.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Yes.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And we shall say that it permeates them all;  for each of them is other than the rest, not by reason of its own nature, but because it partakes of the idea of the other.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Exactly.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Let us now state our conclusions, taking up the five classes one at a time.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> How?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Take motion first;  we say that it is entirely other than rest, do we not?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> We do.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Then it is not rest.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Not at all.</said></p></div></div></body></text></TEI>