<TEI xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xmlns:py="http://codespeak.net/lxml/objectify/pytype" py:pytype="TREE"><text xml:lang="eng"><body><div type="translation" n="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg007.perseus-eng2" xml:lang="eng"><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="241"><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And therefore a statement will likewise be considered false,
<milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="241"/><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="241a"/>if it declares that things which are, are not, or that things which are not, are.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> In what other way could a statement be made false?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Virtually in no other way;  but the sophist will not assent to this.  Or how can any reasonable man assent to it, when the expressions we just agreed upon were previously agreed to be inexpressible, unspeakable, irrational, and inconceivable?  Do we understand his meaning, Theaetetus?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label>  Of course we understand that he will say we are contradicting our recent statements, since we dare to say that falsehood exists in opinions and words; 
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="241b"/>for he will say that we are thus forced repeatedly to attribute being to not-being, although we agreed a while ago that nothing could be more impossible than that.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> You are quite right to remind me.  But I think it is high time to consider what ought to be done about the sophist;  for you see how easily and repeatedly he can raise objections and difficulties, if we conduct our search by putting him in the guild of false-workers and jugglers.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Very true.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Yes, we have gone through only a small part of them,
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="241c"/>and they are, if I may say so, infinite.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> It would, apparently, be impossible to catch the sophist, if that is the case.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Well, then, shall we weaken and give up the struggle now?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> No, I say;  we must not do that, if we can in any way get the slightest hold of the fellow.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Will you then pardon me, and, as your words imply, be content if I somehow withdraw just for a short distance from this strong argument of his?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Of course I will.</said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="241d"/><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> I have another still more urgent request to make of you.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> What is it?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Do not assume that I am becoming a sort of parricide.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> What do you mean?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> In defending myself I shall have to test the theory of my father Parmenides, and contend forcibly that after a fashion not-being is and on the other hand in a sense being is not.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> It is plain that some such contention is necessary.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Yes, plain even to a blind man, as they say;  for unless these statements
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="241e"/>are either disproved or accepted, no one who speaks about false words, or false opinion—whether images or likenesses or imitations or appearances—about the arts which have to do with them, can ever help being forced to contradict himself and make himself ridiculous.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Very true.</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="242"><milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="242"/><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="242a"/><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And so we must take courage and attack our father’s theory here and now, or else, if any scruples prevent us from doing this, we must give the whole thing up.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> But nothing in the world must prevent us.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Then I have a third little request to make of you.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> You have only to utter it.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> I said a while ago that I always have been too faint-hearted for the refutation of this theory, and so I am now.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Yes, so you did.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> I am afraid that on account of what I have said you will think I am mad because I have at once
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="242b"/>reversed my position.  You see it is for your sake that I am going to undertake the refutation, if I succeed in it.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> I certainly shall not think you are doing anything improper if you proceed to your refutation and proof;  so go ahead boldly, so far as that is concerned.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Well, what would be a good beginning of a perilous argument?  Ah, my boy, I believe the way we certainly must take is this.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> What way?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> We must first examine the points which now seem clear,
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="242c"/>lest we may have fallen into some confusion about them and may therefore carelessly agree with one another, thinking that we are judging correctly.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Express your meaning more clearly.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> It seems to me that Parmenides and all who ever undertook a critical definition of the number and nature of realities have talked to us rather carelessly.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> How so?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Every one of them seems to tell us a story, as if we were children.  One says there are three principles, that some of them are sometimes waging a sort of war with each other, and sometimes
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="242d"/>become friends and marry and have children and bring them up; and another says there are two, wet and dry or hot and cold, which he settles together and unites in marriage. <note anchored="true" resp="Loeb">This refers apparently to Pherecydes and the early lonians.</note>  And the Eleatic sect in our region, beginning with Xenophanes and even earlier, have their story that all things, as they are called, are really one.  Then some Ionian <note anchored="true" resp="Loeb">Heracleitus and his followers.</note> and later some Sicilian <note anchored="true" resp="Loeb">Empedocles and his disciples.</note> Muses reflected
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="242e"/>that it was safest to combine the two tales and to say that being is many and one, and is (or are) held together by enmity and friendship.</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="243"><p><said who="#Stranger" rend="merge"><label>Str.</label> For the more strenuous Muses say it is always simultaneously coming together and separating; but the gentler ones relaxed the strictness of the doctrine of perpetual strife; they say that the all is sometimes one and friendly, under the influence of Aphrodite,
<milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="243"/><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="243a"/>and sometimes many and at variance with itself by reason of some sort of strife.  Now whether any of them spoke the truth in all this, or not, it is harsh and improper to impute to famous men of old such a great wrong as falsehood.  But one assertion can be made without offence.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> What is that?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> That they paid too little attention and consideration to the mass of people like ourselves.  For they go on to the end, each in his own way, without caring whether their arguments carry us along with them,
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="243b"/>or whether we are left behind.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> What do you mean?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> When one of them says in his talk that many, or one, or two are, or have become, or are becoming, and again speaks of hot mingling with cold, and in some other part of his discourse suggests separations and combinations, for heaven’s sake, Theaetetus, do you ever understand what they mean by any of these things?  I used to think, when I was younger, that I understood perfectly whenever anyone used this term <q type="emph">not-being,</q> which now perplexes us.  But you see what a slough of perplexity we are in about it now.</said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="243c"/><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Yes, I see.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And perhaps our minds are in this same condition as regards being also;  we may think that it is plain sailing and that we understand when the word is used, though we are in difficulties about not-being, whereas really we understand equally little of both.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Perhaps.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And we may say the same of all the subjects about which we have been speaking.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Certainly.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> We will consider most of them
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="243d"/>later, if you please, but now the greatest and foremost chief of them must be considered.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> What do you mean?  Or, obviously, do you mean that we must first investigate the term <q type="emph">being,</q> and see what those who use it think it signifies?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> You have caught my meaning at once, Theaetetus.  For I certainly do mean that this is the best method for us to use, by questioning them directly, as if they were present in person;  so here goes:  Come now, all you who say that hot and cold or any two such principles are the universe, what is this that you attribute to both of them
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="243e"/>when you say that both and each are?  What are we to understand by this <q type="emph">being</q> (or <q type="emph">are</q>) of yours?  Is this a third principle besides those two others, and shall we suppose that the universe is three, and not two any longer, according to your doctrine?  For surely when you call one only of the two <q type="emph">being</q> you do not mean that both of them equally are;  for in both cases <note anchored="true" resp="Loeb"><q type="mentioned">In both cases,</q> i.e. whether you say that one only is or that both are, they would both be one, namely being.</note> they would pretty certainly be one and not two.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> True.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Well, then, do you wish to call both of them together being?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Perhaps.</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="244"><milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="244"/><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="244a"/><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> But, friends, we will say, even in that way you would very clearly be saying that the two are one.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> You are perfectly right.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Then since we are in perplexity, do you tell us plainly what you wish to designate when you say <q type="emph">being.</q>  For it is clear that you have known this all along, whereas we formerly thought we knew, but are now perplexed.  So first give us this information, that we may not think we understand what you say, when the exact opposite is the case.—
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="244b"/>If we speak in this way and make this request of them and of all who say that the universe is more than one, shall we, my boy, be doing anything improper?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Not in the least.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Well then, must we not, so far as we can, try to learn from those who say that the universe is one <note anchored="true" resp="Loeb">The Eleatic Zeno and his school.</note> what they mean when they say <q type="emph">being</q>?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Of course we must.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Then let them answer this question:  Do you say that one only is?  We do, they will say;  will they not?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Yes.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Well then, do you give the name of being to anything?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Yes.</said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="244c"/><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Is it what you call <q type="emph">one,</q> using two names for the same thing, or how is this?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> What is their next answer, Stranger?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> It is plain, Theaetetus, that he who maintains their theory will not find it the easiest thing in the world to reply to our present question or to any other.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Why not?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> It is rather ridiculous to assert that two names exist when you assert that nothing exists but unity.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Of course it is.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And in general there would be no sense in accepting
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="244d"/>the statement that a name has any existence.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Why?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Because he who asserts that the name is other than the thing, says that there are two entities.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Yes.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And further, if he asserts that the name is the same as the thing, he will be obliged to say that it is the name of nothing, or if he says it is the name of something, the name will turn out to be the name of a name merely and of nothing else.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> True.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And the one will turn out to be the name of one and also the one of the name. <note anchored="true" resp="Loeb">In other words, <q type="emph">one,</q> considered as a word, will be the name of unity, but considered as a reality, it will be the unity of which the word <q type="emph">one</q> is the name.   The sentence is made somewhat difficult of comprehension, doubtless for the purpose of indicating the confusion caused by the identification of the name wlth the thing.</note></said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Necessarily.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And will they say that the whole is other than the one which exists or the same with it?</said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="244e"/><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Of course they will and do say it is the same.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> If then the whole is, as Parmenides says,<quote type="verse"><l met="dactylic">On all sides like the mass of a well-rounded sphere, equally weighted in every direction from the middle; for neither greater nor less must needs be on this or that,</l></quote><bibl>Parmenides Fr. 8.43</bibl>then being, being such as he describes it, has a center and extremes, and, having these, must certainly have parts, must it not?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Certainly.</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="245"><milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="245"/><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="245a"/><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> But yet nothing hinders that which has parts from possessing the attribute of unity in all its parts and being in this way one, since it is all and whole.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Very true.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> But is it not impossible for that which is in this condition to be itself absolute unity?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Why?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Why surely that which is really one must, according to right reason, be affirmed to be absolutely without parts.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Yes, it must.</said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="245b"/><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> But such a unity consisting of many parts will not harmonize with reason.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> I understand.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Then shall we agree that being is one and a whole because it has the attribute of unity, or shall we deny that being is a whole at all?</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> It is a hard choice that you offer me.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> That is very true;  for being, having in a way had unity imposed upon it, will evidently not be the same as unity, and the all will be more than one.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Yes.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And further, if being is not a whole through
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="245c"/>having had the attribute of unity imposed upon it, and the absolute whole exists, then it turns out that being lacks something of being.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Certainly.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And so, by this reasoning, since being is deprived of being, it will be not-being.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> So it will.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And again the all becomes more than the one, since being and the whole have acquired each its own nature.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Yes.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> But if the whole does not exist at all, being is involved in the same difficulties as before, and besides not existing
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="245d"/>it could not even have ever come into existence</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> What do you mean?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> That which comes into existence always comes into existence as a whole.  Therefore no one who does not reckon the whole among things that are can speak of existence or generation as being.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> That certainly seems to be true.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And moreover, that which is not a whole cannot have any quantity at all;  for if it has any quantity, whatever that quantity may be, it must necessarily be of that quantity as a whole.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> Precisely.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And so countless other problems, each one involving infinite  difficulties,
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="245e"/>will confront him who says that being is, whether it be two or only one.</said></p><p><said who="#Theaetetus"><label>Theaet.</label> The problems now in sight make that pretty clear;  for each leads up to another which brings greater and more grievous wandering in connection with whatever has previously been said.</said></p></div></div></body></text></TEI>