<TEI xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xmlns:py="http://codespeak.net/lxml/objectify/pytype" py:pytype="TREE"><text xml:lang="eng"><body><div type="translation" n="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg005.perseus-eng2" xml:lang="eng"><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="413"><p><said who="#Socrates" rend="merge"><label>Socrates.</label> Up to this point, as I said just now, many men agree about justice (<foreign xml:lang="grc">δίκαιον</foreign>);
<milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="413"/><milestone n="413a" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>and I, Hermogenes, being very much in earnest about it, have persistently asked questions and have been told in secret teachings that this is justice, or the cause—for that through which creation takes place is a cause—and some one told me that it was for this reason rightly called Zeus (<foreign xml:lang="grc">Δία</foreign>).  But when, after hearing this, I nevertheless ask them quietly, <q type="spoken">What then, my most excellent friend, if this is true, is justice?</q> they think I am asking too many questions and am leaping over the trenches.<note anchored="true" resp="Loeb">A trench was the limit of the leap for the pentathletes.</note>
<milestone n="413b" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>They say I have been told enough;  they try to satisfy me by saying all sorts of different things, and they no longer agree.  For one says the sun is justice, for the sun alone superintends all things, passing through and burning (<foreign xml:lang="grc">διαϊόντα καὶ καίοντα</foreign>) them.  Then when I am pleased and tell this to some one, thinking it is a fine answer, he laughs at me and asks if I think there is no justice among men when the sun has set.  So I beg him to tell me what he thinks it is,
<milestone n="413c" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>and he says <q type="spoken">Fire.</q>  But this is not easy to understand.  He says it is not actual fire, but heat in the abstract that is in the fire.  Another man says he laughs at all these notions, and that justice is what Anaxagoras says it is, mind;  for mind, he says, is ruled only by itself, is mixed with nothing, orders all things, and passes through them.  Then, my friend, I am far more perplexed than before I undertook to learn about the nature of justice.
<milestone n="413d" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>But I think the name—and that was the subject of our investigation—was given for the reasons I have mentioned.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> I think, Socrates, you must have heard this from some one and are not inventing it yourself.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> And how about the rest of my talk?</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> I do not at all think you had heard that.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> Listen then;  perhaps I may deceive you into thinking that all I am going to say is my own. What remains to consider after justice?  I think we have not yet discussed courage.
<milestone n="413e" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>It is plain enough that injustice (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀδικία</foreign>) is really a mere hindrance of that which passes through (<foreign xml:lang="grc">τοῦ διαϊόντος</foreign>, but the word <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀδρεία</foreign> (courage) implies that courage got its name in battle, and if the universe is flowing, a battle in the universe can be nothing else than an opposite current or flow (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ῥοή</foreign>).  Now if we remove the delta from the word <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀνδρεία</foreign>, the word <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀνρεία</foreign> signifies exactly that activity.</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="414"><p><said who="#Socrates" rend="merge"><label>Socrates.</label> Of course it is clear that not the current opposed to every current is courage, but only that opposed to the current which is contrary to justice;
<milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="414"/><milestone n="414a" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>for otherwise courage would not be praised.  The words <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἄρρεν</foreign> (male) and <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀνήρ</foreign> (man) refer, like <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀνδρεία</foreign>, to the upward (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἄνω</foreign>) current or flow.  The word <foreign xml:lang="grc">γυνή</foreign> (woman) seems to me to be much the same as <foreign xml:lang="grc">γονή</foreign> (birth).  I think <foreign xml:lang="grc">θῆλυ</foreign> (female) is derived from <foreign xml:lang="grc">θηλή</foreign> (teat);  and is not <foreign xml:lang="grc">θηλή</foreign>, Hermogenes, so called because it makes things flourish (<foreign xml:lang="grc">τεθηλέναι</foreign>), like plants wet with showers?</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Very likely, Socrates.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> And again, the word <foreign xml:lang="grc">θάλλειν</foreign> (flourish) seems to me to figure the rapid and sudden growth of the young.
<milestone n="414b" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>Something of that sort the namegiver has reproduced in the name, which he compounded of <foreign xml:lang="grc">θεῖν</foreign> (run) and <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἅλλεσθαι</foreign> (jump).  You do not seem to notice how I rush along outside of the race-course, when I get on smooth ground.  But we still have plenty of subjects left which seem to be serious.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> True.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> One of which is to see what the word <foreign xml:lang="grc">τέχνη</foreign> (art, science) means.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Certainly.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> Does not this denote possession of mind, if you remove the tau and insert omicron between the chi and the nu
<milestone n="414c" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>and the nu and the eta (making <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἐχονόη</foreign>)?</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> It does it very poorly, Socrates.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> My friend, you do not bear in mind that the original words have before now been completely buried by those who wished to dress them up, for they have added and subtracted letters for the sake of euphony and have distorted the words in every way for ornamentation or merely in the lapse of time.  Do you not, for instance, think it absurd that the letter rho is inserted in the word <foreign xml:lang="grc">κάαπτρον</foreign> (mirror)?
<milestone n="414d" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>I think that sort of thing is the work of people who care nothing for truth, but only for the shape of their mouths;  so they keep adding to the original words until finally no human being can understand what in the world the word means.  So the sphinx, for instance, is called sphinx, instead of phix, and there are many other examples.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Yes, that is true, Socrates.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> And if we are permitted to insert and remove any letters we please in words, it will be perfectly easy to fit any name to anything.
<milestone n="414e" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/></said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> True.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> Yes, quite true.  But I think you, as a wise director, must observe the rule of moderation and probability.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> I should like to do so.</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="415"><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> And I, too, Hermogenes.
<milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="415"/><milestone n="415a" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>But do not, my friend, demand too much precision, lest you 
    <quote type="Verse">enfeeble me of my sight.</quote><bibl n="Hom. Il. 6.265">Hom. Il. 6.265</bibl> For now that <foreign xml:lang="grc">τέχνη</foreign> (art) is disposed of, I am nearing the loftiest height of my subject, when once we have investigated <foreign xml:lang="grc">μηχανή</foreign>(contrivance).  For I think <foreign xml:lang="grc">μηχανή</foreign> signifies <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἄνειν ἐπὶ πολύ</foreign> (much accomplishment);  for <foreign xml:lang="grc">μῆκος</foreign> (length) has about the same meaning as <foreign xml:lang="grc">τὸ πολύ</foreign> (much), and the name <foreign xml:lang="grc">μηχανή</foreign> is composed of these two, <foreign xml:lang="grc">μῆκος</foreign> and <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἄνειν</foreign>.  But, as I was just saying, we must go on to the loftiest height of our subject;  we must search for the meaning of the words <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀρετή</foreign> (virtue) and <foreign xml:lang="grc">κακία</foreign> (wickedness).  Now one of them I cannot yet see;
<milestone n="415b" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>but the other seems to be quite clear, since it agrees with everything we have said before.  For inasmuch as all things are in motion, everything that moves badly (<foreign xml:lang="grc">κακῶς ἰόν</foreign>) would be evil (<foreign xml:lang="grc">κακία</foreign>);  and when this evil motion in relation to its environment exists in the soul, it receives the general name <foreign xml:lang="grc">κακία</foreign> (evil) in the special sense of wickedness.  But the nature of evil motion (<foreign xml:lang="grc">κακῶς ἰέναι</foreign>) is made clear, I think, also in the word <foreign xml:lang="grc">δειλία</foreign> (cowardice), which we have not yet discussed.  We passed it by,
<milestone n="415c" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>when we ought to have examined it after <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀνδρεία</foreign> (courage);  and I fancy we passed over a good many other words.  Now the meaning of <foreign xml:lang="grc">δειλία</foreign> is <gloss>a strong bond of the soul</gloss>;  for <foreign xml:lang="grc">λίαν</foreign> (excessively) is, in a way, expressive of strength;  so <foreign xml:lang="grc">δειλία</foreign> would be the excessive or greatest bond (<foreign xml:lang="grc">δεσμός, δεῖν</foreign>) of the soul;  and so, too, <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀπορία</foreign> (perplexity) is an evil, as is everything, apparently, which hinders motion and progress (<foreign xml:lang="grc">πορεύεσθαι</foreign>).  This, then, seems to be the meaning of evil motion (<foreign xml:lang="grc">κακῶς ἰέναι</foreign>), that advance is halting and impeded;  and the soul that is infected by it becomes filled with wickedness (<foreign xml:lang="grc">κακία</foreign>).  If these are the reasons for the name of wickedness, virtue (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀρετή</foreign>) would be the opposite of this;  it would signify first ease of motion,
<milestone n="415d" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>and secondly that the flow of the good soul is always unimpeded, and therefore it has received this name, which designates that which always flows (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀεὶ ῥέον</foreign>) without let or hindrance.  It is properly called <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀειρειτή</foreign>, or perhaps also <foreign xml:lang="grc">αἱρετή</foreign>, indicating that this condition is especially to be chosen;  but it has been compressed and is pronounced <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀρετή</foreign>.  Perhaps you will say this is another invention of mine;  but I say if what I said just now about <foreign xml:lang="grc">κακία</foreign> is right,
<milestone n="415e" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>this about the name of <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀρετή</foreign> is right too.
</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="416"><milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="416"/><milestone n="416a" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> But what is the meaning of the word <foreign xml:lang="grc">κακόν</foreign> which you used in many of your derivations?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> By Zeus, I think it is a strange word and hard to understand;  so I apply to it that contrivance of mine.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> What contrivance?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> The claim of foreign origin, which I advance in this case as in those others.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Well, probably you are right.  But, if you please, let us drop these words and try to discover the reasons for the words <foreign xml:lang="grc">καλόν</foreign> (beautiful, noble) and <foreign xml:lang="grc">αἰσχρόν</foreign> (base).</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> I think the meaning of <foreign xml:lang="grc">αἰσχρόν</foreign> is clear,
<milestone n="416b" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>and this also agrees with what has been said before.  For the giver of names appears to me throughout to denounce that which hinders and restrains things from flowing, and in this instance he gave to that which always restrains the flow (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀεὶ ἴσχει τὸν ῥοῦν</foreign>) this name <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀεισχοροῦν</foreign>, which is now compressed and pronounced <foreign xml:lang="grc">αἰσχρόν</foreign>.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> What about <foreign xml:lang="grc">καλόν</foreign>?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> That is harder to understand, and yet it expresses its meaning:  it has been altered merely in accent and in the length of the O.
<milestone n="416c" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/></said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> How is that?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> I think this word denotes intellect.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> What do you mean?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> Why, what do you think is the cause why anything is called by a name?  Is it not the power which gave the name?</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Why, certainly.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> And is not that power the intellect either of gods or of men or both?</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Yes.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> Are not that which called things by name and that which calls them by name (<foreign xml:lang="grc">τὸ καλοῦν</foreign>) the same thing, namely intellect?</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Yes, clearly.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> And are not all works which are done by mind and intelligence worthy of praise, and those that are not done by them worthy of blame?</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Certainly.
<milestone n="416d" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/></said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> Does not the medical power perform medical works and the power of carpentry works of carpentry?  Do you agree to that?</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> I agree.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> And the beautiful performs beautiful works?</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> It must do so.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> And the beautiful is, we say, intellect?</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Certainly.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> Then this name, the beautiful, is rightly given to mind, since it accomplishes the works which we call beautiful and in which we delight.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Evidently.
<milestone n="416e" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/></said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> What further words of this sort are left for us?</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="417"><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Those that are related to the good and the beautiful,
<milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="417"/><milestone n="417a" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>such as <foreign xml:lang="grc">συμφέροντα</foreign> (advantageous), <foreign xml:lang="grc">λυσιτελοῦντα</foreign> (profitable), <foreign xml:lang="grc">ὠφέλιμα</foreign> (useful), <foreign xml:lang="grc">κερδαλέα</foreign> (gainful), and their opposites.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> You might by this time be able to find the meaning of <foreign xml:lang="grc">συμφέροντα</foreign> by yourself in the light of the previous explanations, for it appears to be own brother to <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἐπιστήμη</foreign>.  It means nothing else but the motion (<foreign xml:lang="grc">φορά</foreign>) of the soul in company with the world, and naturally things which are done by such a power are called <foreign xml:lang="grc">συμφέροντα</foreign> and <foreign xml:lang="grc">σύμφορα</foreign> because they are carried round with (<foreign xml:lang="grc">συμπεριφέρεσθαι</foreign>) the world.  But <foreign xml:lang="grc">κερδαλέον</foreign> is from <foreign xml:lang="grc">κέρδος</foreign> (gain).
<milestone n="417b" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>If you restore nu in the word <foreign xml:lang="grc">κέρδος</foreign> in place of the delta, the meaning is plain;  it signifies good, but in another way.  Because it passes through and is mingled (<foreign xml:lang="grc">κεράννυται</foreign>) with all things, he who named it gave it this name which indicates that function;  but he inserted a delta instead of nu and said <foreign xml:lang="grc">κέρδος</foreign>.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> And what is <foreign xml:lang="grc">λυσιτελοῦν</foreign>?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> I do not think, Hermogenes, the name-giver gives the meaning to <foreign xml:lang="grc">λυσιτελοῦν</foreign> which it has in the language of tradesfolk, when profit sets free (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀπολύει</foreign>) the sum invested,
<milestone n="417c" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>but he means that because it is the swiftest thing in the world it does not allow things to remain at rest and does not allow the motion to come to any end (<foreign xml:lang="grc">τέλος</foreign>) of movement or to stop or pause, but always, if any end of the motion is attempted, it sets it free, making it unceasing and immortal.  It is in this sense, I think, that the good is dubbed <foreign xml:lang="grc">λυσιτελοῦν</foreign>, for it frees (<foreign xml:lang="grc">λύει</foreign>) the end (<foreign xml:lang="grc">τέλος</foreign>) of the motion.  But the word <foreign xml:lang="grc">ὠφέλιμον</foreign> is a foreign one, which Homer often uses in the verbal form <foreign xml:lang="grc">ὀφέλλειν</foreign>.  This is a synonym of <q type="emph">increase</q> and <q type="emph">create.</q>
<milestone n="417d" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/></said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> What shall be our explanations of the opposites of these?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> Those of them that are mere negatives, need, I think, no discussion.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Which are those?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> Disadvantageous, useless, unprofitable, and ungainful.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> True.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> But <foreign xml:lang="grc">βλαβερόν</foreign> (harmful) and <foreign xml:lang="grc">ζημιῶδες</foreign> (hurtful) do need it.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Yes.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> And <foreign xml:lang="grc">βλαβερόν</foreign> means that which harms (<foreign xml:lang="grc">βλάπτον</foreign>) the flow (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ῥοῦν</foreign>);
<milestone n="417e" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>but <foreign xml:lang="grc">βλάπτον</foreign> means <gloss>wishing to fasten</gloss> (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἅπτειν</foreign>), and <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἅπτειν</foreign> is the same thing as <foreign xml:lang="grc">δεῖν</foreign> (bind), which the name-giver constantly finds fault with.  Now <foreign xml:lang="grc">τὸ βουλόμενον ἅπτειν ῥοῦν</foreign> (that which wishes to fasten the flow) would most correctly be called <foreign xml:lang="grc">βουλαπτεροῦν</foreign>, but is called <foreign xml:lang="grc">βλαβερόν</foreign> merely, as I think, to make it prettier.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Elaborate names these are, Socrates, that result from your method.  Just now,
<milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="418"/><milestone n="418a" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>when you pronounced <foreign xml:lang="grc">βουλαπτεροῦν</foreign>, you looked as if you had made up your mouth to whistle the flute-prelude of the hymn to Athena.</said></p></div></div></body></text></TEI>