<TEI xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xmlns:py="http://codespeak.net/lxml/objectify/pytype" py:pytype="TREE"><text xml:lang="eng"><body><div type="translation" n="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg005.perseus-eng2" xml:lang="eng"><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="408"><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> Well then, this name <q type="emph">Hermes</q> seems to me to have to do with speech;  he is an interpreter (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἡρμηνεύς</foreign>) and a messenger,
<milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="408"/><milestone n="408a" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>is wily and deceptive in speech, and is oratorical.  All this activity is concerned with the power of speech.  Now, as I said before, <foreign xml:lang="grc">εἴρειν</foreign> denotes the use of speech;  moreover, Homer often uses the word <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἐμήσατο</foreign>, which means <gloss>contrive.</gloss>  From these two words, then, the lawgiver imposes upon us the name of this god who contrived speech and the use of speech—<foreign xml:lang="grc">εἴρειν</foreign>means <gloss>speak</gloss>—
<milestone n="408b" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>and tells us:  <q type="written">Ye human beings, he who contrived speech (<foreign xml:lang="grc">εἴρειν ἐμήσατο</foreign>) ought to be called Eiremes by you.</q>  We, however, have beautified the name, as we imagine, and call him Hermes.  Iris also seems to have got her name from <foreign xml:lang="grc">εἴρειν</foreign>, because she is a messenger.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> By Zeus, I believe Cratylus was right in saying I was not Hermogenes;  I certainly am no good contriver of speech.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> And it is reasonable, my friend, that Pan is the double-natured son of Hermes.
<milestone n="408c" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/></said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> How is that?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> You know that speech makes all things (<foreign xml:lang="grc">πᾶν</foreign>) known and always makes them circulate and move about, and is twofold, true and false.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Certainly.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> Well, the true part is smooth and divine and dwells aloft among the gods, but falsehood dwells below among common men, is rough and like the tragic goat<note anchored="true" resp="Loeb">The chorus of the primitive performances from which tragedy developed appeared as satyrs, clad in goat-skins.  Hence the name <foreign xml:lang="grc">τραγῳδία</foreign> (goat-song).  The adjective <foreign xml:lang="grc">τραγικός</foreign> may mean either <gloss>goat-like</gloss> or <gloss>tragic.</gloss>  In this passage it has both meanings.</note>;  for tales and falsehoods are most at home there, in the tragic life.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Certainly.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> Then Pan, who declares and always moves (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀεὶ πολῶν</foreign>) all, is rightly called goat-herd (<foreign xml:lang="grc">αἰπόλος</foreign>),
<milestone n="408d" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>being the double-natured son of Hermes, smooth in his upper parts, rough and goat-like in his lower parts.  And Pan, if he is the son of Hermes, is either speech or the brother of speech, and that brother resembles brother is not at all surprising.  But, as I said, my friend, let us get away from the gods.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> From such gods as those, if you like, Socrates;  but why should you not tell of another kind of gods, such as sun, moon, stars, earth,
<milestone n="408e" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>ether, air, fire, water, the seasons, and the year?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> You are imposing a good many tasks upon me;  however, if it will give you pleasure, I am willing.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> It will give me pleasure.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> What, then, do you wish first?  Shall we discuss the sun (<foreign xml:lang="grc">Ἥλιος</foreign>), as you mentioned it first?</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> By all means.</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="409"><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> I think it would be clearer
<milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="409"/><milestone n="409a" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>if we were to use the Doric form of the name.  The Dorians call it <foreign xml:lang="grc">Ἅλιος</foreign>.  Now <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἅλιος</foreign> might be derived from collecting (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἁλίζειν</foreign>) men when he rises, or because he always turns (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀεὶ εἱλεῖν</foreign>) about the earth in his course, or because he variegates the products of the earth, for variegate is identical with <foreign xml:lang="grc">αἰολλεῖν</foreign>.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> And what of the moon, Selene?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> That name appears to put Anaxagoras in an uncomfortable position.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> How so?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> Why, it seems to have anticipated by many years the recent doctrine of Anaxagoras,
<milestone n="409b" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>that the moon receives its light from the sun.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> How is that?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label><foreign xml:lang="grc">Σέλας</foreign> (gleam) and <foreign xml:lang="grc">φῶς</foreign> (light) are the same thing.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Yes.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> Now the light is always new and old about the moon, if the Anaxagoreans are right;  for they say the sun, in its continuous course about the moon, always sheds new light upon it, and the light of the previous month persists.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Certainly.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> The moon is often called <foreign xml:lang="grc">Σελαναία</foreign>.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Certainly.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> Because it has always a new and old gleam (<foreign xml:lang="grc">σέλα νέον τε καὶ ἕνον</foreign>)
<milestone n="409c" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>the very most fitting name for it would be <foreign xml:lang="grc">Σελαενονεοάεια</foreign>, which has been compressed into <foreign xml:lang="grc">Σελαναία</foreign>.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> That is a regular opera bouffe name, Socrates. But what have you to say of the month (<foreign xml:lang="grc">μήν</foreign>) and the stars?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> The word <q type="emph">month</q> (<foreign xml:lang="grc">μείς</foreign>) would be properly pronounced <foreign xml:lang="grc">μείης</foreign>, from <foreign xml:lang="grc">μειοῦσθαι</foreign>, <gloss>to grow less,</gloss> and I think the stars (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἄστερα</foreign>) get their name from <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀστραπή</foreign> (lightning).  But <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀστραπή</foreign>, because it turns our eyes upwards (<foreign xml:lang="grc">τὰ ὦπα ἀναστρέθει</foreign>), would be called <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀναστρωπή</foreign>, which is now pronounced more prettily <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀστραπή</foreign>.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> And what of <foreign xml:lang="grc">πῦρ</foreign> (fire) and <foreign xml:lang="grc">ὕδωρ</foreign> (water)?
<milestone n="409d" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/></said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label><foreign xml:lang="grc">Πῦρ</foreign> is too much for me.  It must be that either the muse of Euthyphro has deserted me or this is a very difficult word.  Now just note the contrivance I introduce in all cases like this which are too much for me.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> What contrivance?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> I will tell you.  Answer me;  can you tell the reason of the word <foreign xml:lang="grc">πῦρ</foreign>?</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Not I, by Zeus.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> See what I suspect about it.  I know that many Greeks,
<milestone n="409e" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>especially those who are subject to the barbarians, have adopted many foreign words.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> What of that?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> If we should try to demonstrate the fitness of those words in accordance with the Greek language, and not in accordance with the language from which they are derived, you know we should get into trouble.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Naturally.
</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="410"><milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="410"/><milestone n="410a" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> Well, this word <foreign xml:lang="grc">πῦρ</foreign> is probably foreign;  for it is difficult to connect it with the Greek language, and besides, the Phrygians have the same word, only slightly altered.  The same is the case with <foreign xml:lang="grc">ὕδωρ</foreign> (water), <foreign xml:lang="grc">κύων</foreign> (dog), and many other words.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Yes, that is true.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> So we must not propose forced explanations of these words, though something might be said about them.  I therefore set aside <foreign xml:lang="grc">πῦρ</foreign> and <foreign xml:lang="grc">ὕδωρ</foreign> in this way.
<milestone n="410b" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>But is air called <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀήρ</foreign> because it raises (<foreign xml:lang="grc">αἴρει</foreign>) things from the earth, or because it is always flowing (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀεὶ ῥεῖ</foreign>), or because wind arises from its flow?  The poets call the winds <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀήτας</foreign>, <gloss>blasts.</gloss>  Perhaps the poet means to say <q type="emph">air-flow</q> (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀητόρρουν</foreign>), as he might say <q type="emph">wind-flow</q> (<foreign xml:lang="grc">πνευματόρρουν</foreign>).  The word <foreign xml:lang="grc">αἴθηρ</foreign> (ether) I understand in this way: because it always runs and flows about the air (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀεὶ θεῖ περὶ τὸν ἀέρα ῥέον</foreign>), it may properly be called <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀειθεήρα</foreign>.  The word <foreign xml:lang="grc">γῆ</foreign> (earth) shows the meaning better
<milestone n="410c" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>in the form <foreign xml:lang="grc">γαῖα</foreign>;  for <foreign xml:lang="grc">γαῖα</foreign> is a correct word for <q type="emph">mother,</q> as Homer says, for he uses <foreign xml:lang="grc">γεγάασιν</foreign> to mean <foreign xml:lang="grc">γεγενῆσθαι</foreign> (be born).  Well, now what came next?</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> The seasons, Socrates, and the two words for year.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> The word <foreign xml:lang="grc">ὧραι</foreign> (seasons) should be pronounced in the old Attic fashion, <foreign xml:lang="grc">ὅραι</foreign>, if you wish to know the probable meaning;  <foreign xml:lang="grc">ΗΟΡΑΙ</foreign> exist to divide winters and summers and winds and the fruits of the earth;  and since they divide (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ὁρίζουσι</foreign>), they would rightly be called <foreign xml:lang="grc">ὅραι</foreign>.
<milestone n="410d" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>The two words for year, <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἐνιαυτός</foreign> and <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἔτος</foreign>, are really one.  For that which brings to light within itself the plants and animals, each in its turn, and examines them, is called by some <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἐνιαυτός</foreign>, because of its activity within itself (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἐν ἑαυτῷ</foreign>), and by others <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἔτος</foreign>, because it examines (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἐτάζει</foreign>), just as we saw before that the name of Zeus was divided and some said <foreign xml:lang="grc">Δία</foreign> and others <foreign xml:lang="grc">Ζῆνα</foreign>.  The whole phrase is <q type="emph">that which examines within itself</q> (<foreign xml:lang="grc">τὸ ἐν ἁυτῷ ἐτάζον</foreign>), and this one phrase is divided in speech so that the two words <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἐνιαυτός</foreign> and <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἔτος</foreign>
<milestone n="410e" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>are formed from one phrase.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Truly, Socrates, you are going ahead at a great rate.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> Yes, I fancy I am already far along on the road of wisdom.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> I am sure you are.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> You will be surer presently.
</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="411"><milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="411"/><milestone n="411a" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Now after the class of words you, have explained, I should like to examine the correctness of the noble words that relate to virtue, such as wisdom, intelligence, justice, and all the others of that sort.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> You are stirring up a mighty tribe of words, my friend;  however, since I have put on the lion helmet, I must not play the coward, but must, it seems, examine wisdom, intelligence, thought, knowledge,
<milestone n="411b" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>and all the other noble words of which you speak.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> Certainly we must not stop until that is done.</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> By dog, I believe I have a fine intuition which has just come to me, that the very ancient men who invented names were quite like most of the present philosophers who always get dizzy as they turn round and round in their search for the nature of things, and then the things seem to them to turn round and round and be in motion.
<milestone n="411c" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>They think the cause of this belief is not an affection within themselves, but that the nature of things really is such that nothing is at rest or stable, but everything is flowing and moving and always full of constant motion and generation.  I say this because I thought of it with reference to all these words we are now considering.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> How is that, Socrates?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> Perhaps you did not observe that the names we just mentioned are given under the assumption that the things named are moving and flowing and being generated.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> No, I did not notice that at all.
<milestone n="411d" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/></said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> Surely the first one we mentioned is subject to such assumptions.</said></p><p><said who="#Hermogenes"><label>Hermogenes.</label> What is the word ?</said></p><p><said who="#Socrates"><label>Socrates.</label> Wisdom (<foreign xml:lang="grc">φρόνησις</foreign>);  for it is perception (<foreign xml:lang="grc">νόησις</foreign>) of motion (<foreign xml:lang="grc">φορᾶς</foreign>) and flowing (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ῥοῦ</foreign>);  or it might be understood as benefit (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ὄνησις</foreign>) of motion (<foreign xml:lang="grc">φορᾶς</foreign>);  in either case it has to do with motion.  And <foreign xml:lang="grc">γνώμη</foreign> (thought), if you please, certainly denotes contemplation and consideration of generation (<foreign xml:lang="grc">γονῆς νώμησις</foreign>);  for to consider is the same as to contemplate.  Or, if you please, <foreign xml:lang="grc">νόησις</foreign> (intelligence) is merely <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἕσις</foreign> (desire) <foreign xml:lang="grc">τοῦ νεοῦ</foreign> (of the new);  but that things are new shows that they are always being generated;
<milestone n="411e" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>therefore the soul’s desire for generation is declared by the giver of the name <foreign xml:lang="grc">νεόεσις</foreign>;  for in antiquity the name was not <foreign xml:lang="grc">νόησις</foreign>, but two epsilons had to be spoken instead of the eta.</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="412"><p><said who="#Socrates" rend="merge"><label>Socrates.</label><foreign xml:lang="grc">Σωφροσύνη</foreign> (self-restraint) is <foreign xml:lang="grc">σωτηρία</foreign> (salvation) of <foreign xml:lang="grc">φρόνησις</foreign> (wisdom), which we have just been discussing.
<milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="412"/><milestone n="412a" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>And <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἐπιστήμη</foreign> (knowledge) indicates that the soul which is of any account accompanies (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἕπεται</foreign>) things in their motion, neither falling behind them nor running in front of them;  therefore we ought to insert an epsilon and call it <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἐπεϊστήμη</foreign>.  <foreign xml:lang="grc">Σύνεσις</foreign> (intelligence) in its turn is a kind of reckoning together;  when one says <foreign xml:lang="grc">συνιέναι</foreign> (understand), the same thing as <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἐπίστασθαι</foreign> is said;
<milestone n="412b" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>for <foreign xml:lang="grc">συνιέναι</foreign> means that the soul goes with things.  Certainly <foreign xml:lang="grc">σοφία</foreign> (wisdom) denotes the touching of motion.  This word is very obscure and of foreign origin;  but we must remember that the poets often say of something which begins to advance <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἐσύθη</foreign> (it rushed).  There was a famous Laconian whose name was <foreign xml:lang="grc">Σοῦς</foreign> (Rush), for this is the Laconian word for rapid motion.  Now <foreign xml:lang="grc">σοφία</foreign> signifies the touching (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἐπαφή</foreign>) of this rapid motion, the assumption being that things are in motion.  And the word <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀγαθόν</foreign> (good)
<milestone n="412c" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>is intended to denote the admirable (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀγαστόν</foreign>) in all nature.  For since all things are in motion, they possess quickness and slowness;  now not all that is swift, but only part of it, is admirable;  this name <foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀγαθόν</foreign> is therefore given to the admirable (<foreign xml:lang="grc">ἀγαστόν</foreign>) part of the swift (<foreign xml:lang="grc">θοοῦ</foreign>).<milestone ed="P" unit="para"/>It is easy to conjecture that the word <foreign xml:lang="grc">δικαιασύνη</foreign> applies to the understanding (<foreign xml:lang="grc">σύνεσις</foreign>) of the just (<foreign xml:lang="grc">τοῦ διαίον</foreign>) but the word <foreign xml:lang="grc">δίκαιον</foreign> (just) is itself difficult.  Up to a certain point, you see, many men seem to agree about it, but beyond that they differ.
<milestone n="412d" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>For those who think the universe is in motion believe that the greater part of it is of such a nature as to be a mere receptacle, and that there is some element which passes through all this, by means of which all created things are generated.  And this element must be very rapid and very subtle;  for it could not pass through all the universe unless it were very subtle, so that nothing could keep it out, and it must be very swift, so that all other things are relatively at rest.  Since, then, it superintends and passes through (<foreign xml:lang="grc">διαϊόν</foreign>) all other things,
<milestone n="412e" unit="section" resp="Stephanus"/>this is rightly called by the name <foreign xml:lang="grc">δίκαιον</foreign>, the sound of the kappa being added merely for the sake of euphony.</said></p></div></div></body></text></TEI>